The effective flush that was used years ago is no longer available due to the EPA.
Whats a good product or homebrew concoction for all sorts of drivers, antiques, rods, to daily aluminum block beaters?
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Carl
Automotive gold is everywhere; you just have to learn how to dig for it

I guess none of you guys ever do any cooling system maintenance.
Thanks for the help................
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Carl
Automotive gold is everywhere; you just have to learn how to dig for it

I dont do chemecal flushes, it never gets that bad, just a quick reverse flush with fresh water for 15 mins, drain and refil with fresh 50/50 mix of prestone...thats it. Once a year.

My stuff doesn't get very dirty either. I just use whatever brand name flush is on sale and back flush with fresh water for a while too. Follow up with 50/50 mix. My daily drivers get it every two years and any rod that gets driven gets it every year at storage time. Only got one running right now and since it has had a few water pump changes this summer, I'm skipping it this fall.

Merc, I don't flush at all!!! I run Evans Coolant (NO water and no pressure) in my Chev. It doesn't boil til 369 degrees and doesn't freeze til 70 below. You put it in and forget about it. The system is closed to the atmosphere so it doesn't collect any contaminents. It prevents any rust and crap from starting. Their new coolant Evans Plus has an additive in it that actually cleans the coolant passages. Check it out on their site www.evanscooling.com.
Rochie

I was wondering if that stuff was as good as they purport it to be. How long have you been using it?
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Lynn
'32 3W

A bottle of lestoil and some com flush(not kiddin we used to do it all the time in a cummins shop) Gets all the crap out and smells good too.LOL Lestoil dont hurt the pump or any seals or gaskets.
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Drive like you stole it !!

Lynn.....the Evans product has good, bad and ugly about it that you should know going in. First this stuff in non-aqueaous propylene glycol...meaning no water and no gassing.

The good is that it has high boiling point, low freezing point, atmospherically innert, and environmentally safe, something I like alot.

However, the bad is that it is expensive, may require the alteration of your cooling system, is not compatiable with all gasketing materials, is not a good carrier of heat per unit volume (less than 40% of that of water). The last one is a biggy if you have high hp engines and the heat you are creating now is borderline, this product will keep you from boiling over, but may push you to the safe limits of operating the engine. I had acquaintance with a 502 in a 57 that used Evans and the product protected against boilover, but because of the inability to carry BTUs away he consistently went to 250 degrees at which point he had to turn it off. I convinced him to go back to just water and a corrosion inhibitor and now stays on the themostat on 95 degree days with the very exact system.

The ugly is that they make all these claims in their literature and web site that are taken out of technical context ..more power and milage ....all of which are problematic claims ...simply not true in context. Of course if your engine is pinging from too high of heat the thing is going to be down on power. I have real problems with this aspect of the whole product line.

This is not to cast dispersion on any poster here that uses it, there are people out there using it and apparently satisfied with it's good points.

Just my two sense.
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Steve Jack
SOUTHEASTERN GOODGUYS REP

HOTRODSJR:

Evans' new coolant NPG+ has lower viscosity and improved heat transfer vs NPG and in nearly all cases doesn't require any changes to cooling system hardware. You do not have to run it hot - you can run the conventional thermostat. If you are in a situation where the temperature does rise (high ambient temp. in traffic with the a/c turned on) the coolant won't boil over.

By the way, Evans Cooling just announced that they can de-toxify ethylene glycol. Check it out at their website: www.evanscooling.com.

Mpower....thanks for the heads-up. I will look at the new improved product for current hardware etal. I know that the NPG use had to have alot of mods and this was one of my major objections to the coolant. I will have to thoroghly check out the BTU carrying capability of the new stuff. Remember the old stuff was lousy at heat carrying compared to ordinary water. Another big objection that I have as previously stated.

I am giddy at the fact that they might have a detoxifier for EG. I have passed this onto a friend of mine that is a bio-chemist and asked his opinion. He specializes in bioanalytical chemistry. His company, interesting enough is called BAS (BioAnalytical Systems, INC.) and can be found in West Lafayette, INd. I can't wait for his answer. I would think that this should be an additive for every ounce of Ethyl Gylcol on earth! Thanks for the info...good stuff.
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Steve Jack
SOUTHEASTERN GOODGUYS REP

OK -so for those of us running "stock" horsepower levels and would like a sealed system requiring no work my 2 questions would be 1) Is this stuff worth the money? and 2) What gasket materials is it not compatible to? I like the idea of a no boil over scenario but if it won't carry the heat away I wouldn't have a use for it.

Bill, in that you are in Atlanta and drive your car alot and get caught in stop and go traffic, there are two schools of thought here with this product (even the newer version which appears to be much better than the original).

Evans features a whole host of things such as high boiling and low freezing points, almost non existent pressure, is long lived and inhibits rust, and just will never come out of your radiator no matter what...all those are true assets of the product. The rest of the claims on their page such as more hp, better performance, and all of this is like looking at the picture of the BigMac on the billboard and then looking at it at McDonalds....it's embellished to the hilt to say it politely!

The part that I don't like is that it's expensive, the viscosity is still like glue at room temperature and almost 10 times that of water at 200 degrees F, which tells me that it takes more hp to move it (pump wise), it still is a poor conductor of heat, and moreover according to their latest figures from their own site, for every 1 bucket of heat (in BTUs) that you remove with water, you will have to use 40% more buckets to remove the same amount of heat! A 50/50 mix of EG will be approximately a 27% better carrier of pure heating BTUs. That is where the rub lies.

What this boils down to (excuse the pun) is that the product will not puke out and will prevent hot spots, but if your engine has to have the full extent of your current system to depend on for total heat removal, the overall temperature will keep inching upward until you have to shut it off....but the coolant will still be in the radiator.

My guess is that if you are heating up and readily puking away (this would be due to hot spots) this product might be worth trying to get rid of the spot formation and everything might be great, whereas the system might be big enough to hold the temp....but you could have other issues that might have a simple solution as well. But, if your heat just keeps on gradually creeping up until it gets so hot that you have to shut is off, then this product is definitely not the product for you.


--
Steve Jack
SOUTHEASTERN GOODGUYS REP

ps...if you simply have a stock system that is performing okay and want to completely not worry about changing it and all that, I think Evans would be the product for you if you are willing to put the $$ up for it. I think this is their major marketing strength with commercial fleets etal.
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Steve Jack
SOUTHEASTERN GOODGUYS REP

So just how much is this "new" product and if I don't like it can I ever get it out of my system or am I just doomed? What types of gasket materials is it not "friendly" with?

Has a 50/50 mix of your favorite coolant been just not good enough? I just feel yearly maintanance would be sufficiant enough on a healthy clean cooling system. All the rest is just bells and whistles. Wasted coin.

HOTRODSRJ,

When you hear from your friend the bio-chemist please pass his comments along to the board.

There is a lot of talk about specific heats and thermal conductivities with regard to water-based and non-aqueous coolants. On a strictly textbook basis practically no fluid conducts heat better than water. However, when you look at a cooling system, the objective is to control metal temperatures. The heat has to be conducted from the hot metal into the coolant and then from the liquid coolant into the metal radiator. Now comes a part that is really important and really easy to miss: The heat in the radiator must dissipate into the ambient air. Compared to the other heat transfers in the system, heat transfer from the radiator to the air is quite poor. It is for that reason that a heat transfer fluid with properties seemingly inferior to water can nearly match the coolant temperature of a water-based system.

The evans thesis on how their non-aqueous coolant can control metal temperatures better than water-based coolants is that water vapor is formed under certain conditions in a water-based system that insulates hot metal from the liquid coolant. If that happens, the heat transfer calculations go out the window and the metal temperature spikes. By getting rid of the water and using a coolant with a high boiling point you get away from the vapor problem.

I should add that vapor from locally boiling a water-based coolant is almost 100% water vapor because the glycol portion re-condenses

Continuation to HOTRODSRJ

I should add that vapor from locally boiling a water-based coolant is almost 100% water vapor because the glycol portion re-condenses. The water vapor can only condense if the temperature is below the boiling point of WATER for the pressure of the system.

MPOWER.....I will indeed pass any comments from Ron "the rocket scientist" when he responds. He literally is a world recognised chemist and I wish that this would be a widely distributed product for E-G. Can't wait! He too is a car nut of sorts.

I couldn't agree with you more on the ultimate challange of a cooling system is to control the internal metal temperatures and conductivity and capacity (the ability to carry and remove heat) of the cooling media is an important part of that......but you are right...it HAS to stay in contact with the managed surface metal to conduct and absorb heat. If not, there is no conduction and the effectiveness of the system is compromised significantly, your point (and Evan's) is well taken. I have read with great fevor and interest all the hoopla over "nucleate boiling", something that I have studied in core reactor design and cooling for nuclear power generation reactor systems in the 70s, it's nothing revolutionary or new and a part of themal dynamics 101, but......this simply is not an everyday happening in you typical street/performance engine ....probably never, if all is in place. The depiction of this problem is very acurate on their (Evans) part and would indeed be a reason to rethink the cooling media that you are using in your system if this were a reoccuring problem. I have previosly recommended that constant boilover systems would probably benefit from this product, but ones that simply run a little warm or not, it's a waste of money. Going on....,as I stated, hot spots caused by nucleate boiling rarely occur in high performance engines (this is part of the problem that I have with Evans....they make you think that it occurs all the time and instills a fear tactic to sell their products), but when they (hot spots and the nucleate boiling) do appear for whatever reason, they are manifested by some other inherent problem in the cooling system (if designed correctly) like loss of airflow on the radiator, insufficient radiator size, poor water pump production, restricted flow etc....something that is simply not working correctly. In a properly designed and functional cooling system the "nucleate boiling" and "hot spotting" should not be a concern with everyday performance engines and even racing applications for that matter (most if not all racing applications use good ole water and a host of additives...and I know they are concerned with nucleate boiling) With literally billions of cooling systems working correctly everyday out there in the automotive world with standard cooling media in all kinds of applications, in my opinion the Evans products are good bandaids, but not the cure. Once again, the inherent features that I like the most are the nontoxic nature and the long-lived, anti-corrosive nature of the product, that's what I would be using it for.

To conclude this too long response, if most if not all engines cooling systems are designed and working corectly, the coolant DOES stay in contact with the metal and conductivity and specific heat issues ARE the concern of the day with these cooling medias. With a surfactant and corrosive additive and a 12 to 15 psi of natural pressure, that coolant will be very hard to beat with any such non-metal coolant media and perform to levels way above 250 degrees F without nucleate boiling which should be satisfactory at least. That system will absorb at a faster rate, at higher conduction, and moreover at a much greater capacity than any other than you can muster.

The point you made in subsequent posting about the water vapor condensing is a good one too, but you failed or at least you did not mention to take into account the VAPOR CORRECTED boiling/condensing point of the coolant which would be in the vicinity of 275 degrees F or better in a typical EG system with 12 lbs of pressure....not simply the boiling point of water at standard atmosphere. You probably already knew that, just wasn't stated.

I know this sounds like I am busting your chops here on this subject, but that is NOT THE INTENT of this post. Like I said, there are applications for this product, I just want to take what knowledge and experience I have with this product (and others) and just report and let othes here decide. I recognise cooling as a complicated science really, something that most don't think of.

To Bill,.... some gasket manufactures state that their gaskets will "gel" with propylene glycol, the very stuff that Evans is using in their products. I personally have never seen this, but have heard it from several manufacturers including Edelbrock, TuffStuff (both of which make waterpumps for our Concept One lines) and Stewart (good enough for me). I do know that gasket gel-ling will lead to eventual gasket blowout wherever gaskets are in contact with the cooling substance. Usually the back gasket on the waterpumps so I am told. I don't know if the newer improved product is any better. Because I am so into cooling system design and so forth, I am going to call Evans about these claims to see what their take is on this problem. If it is still true, I will leave the warning on our products about this. If not, I will stand corrected and take action to such and report back. Felpro claims that their gaskets are immune because of manufacturing/process differences. We do supply Felpro gaskets for the waterpump mounting, but other gaskets like the back panel on the waterpumps, and themostat housings are at risk apparently.
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Steve Jack
SOUTHEASTERN GOODGUYS REP

Boy thats more than i ever wanted to know about cooling systems. Just a thought,if its built correctly in the first place you wont need expensive coolant or trick water pumps. Have built a 455 olds with a blower good griffin radiator,with a shroud,lots of air flow through the underhood area and a 50% mix of coolant never a heating problem. 33 ford with a 351 10.5 to 1 closed engine compartment with A/C griffin radiator 50% mix most times runs to cool with a/c off. 37 chevy(which everone knows has to small a grill opening) 383 smallblock with 50% mix stock water pump but with a remote a/c condenser mounted away from the radiator runs 195 allday. I just dont get it, never had one car that i built overheat.(one but the dummy reads hot rod magazine and decided he knew better than the cam grinder and changed the cam timing) No special anything other than being carefull with engine timing and radiator placement(allways error to the largest that will fit)Fan shrouds(half the cars i see overheating dont have one)try try try to build it with a mechanical fan(no flex garbage either). Guess i must be lucky. Ah these cars are not just driven in the cold northeast,one is in Tampa now. I think the griffin radiators that i use are probably one of the reasons .I also see people with those pretty steel flex hoses(cool flex i think),NG they cause more problems than they are worth.Removed them from a friends 48 chevy truck with a 502 and saw 13 degrees diff in engine temp on a hot day.Thats a lot. Just a good lesson spend the money and brain power when your building it and you will have no problems.Dont forget the thermo-stat its a must not and option.If you are using water you have got problems. Talk about screwing a topic up. LOL
Mik
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Drive like you stole it !!

And one hundred pennies is one dollar, and two hundred pennies is two dollars, and three hundr................... Sounds like the battle of wits. And the scientist WINS!

Yep Nit Wits LOL whats a sci-entits?? stripper??? Or???
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Drive like you stole it !!

I just don`t see why regular rodders need to know the atomic molecular structure of a cotter pin before they poke one into a ball joint nut. Hey guys, we`re just regular folk, simple questions simple answers. It was never rocket science. If giving the square route of the universe is supposed to be funny......you`re halarious. Real rods have used the KISS method with much success since it all began.

Common guys....IT IS SCIENCE.....and that is what makes it work or not.....and interesting for a old "Boilermaker" like me. I know that it can be boring, but just watch/listen and learn....that's what I try to do. I am, as you can see, an information junky and engineer NUTCASE.

There are too many myths in this arena (cooling) about this to just ignore it. Notwithstanding the Evans Cooling thing here, myths and misinformation is the reason that I have been involved with cooling engineering for the last years or so, and moreover I have products now that involve themselves here as well. So, I have to know this stuff to develop new and effective products. I take the cooling thing as a critical and one of safety issue. It can leave you stranded and vulnerable if not understood. How many times have you ever heard this "well if ya just slow the water goin thru the radiator the water will have time to cool off...yep that thar's the problem...it'll cool then"?
That is one of the most ignorant and blatent statements about the way cooling DOESN'T WORK, in fact it's just the opposite.

Whilst I agree with the "KISS" thing, but even the basics are misinterpreted and not understood. Just take what you have learned about the aluminum radiator for your blower cars. They are tremendously more effective than copper. You had to learn this someplace? It didn't just fall out of the sky one day and hit you over the head!

Okay....you guys can go back to making fun of us. But if ya didn't have engineers and science to go with, me thinks you better think about yer indoor plumbin next time your in thar! Hmmmmmm hehehehe!

Taking off for the Cherokee this morning.....y'all have a great weekend.....y'hear?
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Steve Jack
SOUTHEASTERN GOODGUYS REP

I allways thought the engineers drove the trains and that is why they are going bankrupt. I will forgive your statement about slowing down the coolant(restriction) on your slide rule you may not understand it but it does work.I think you may have a problem with how it is explained.It does slow coolant and keep it in the radiator a bit longer for cooling but the important part is that it keeps pressure in the block to fight against hot spots around the ex valves(makes hp that way also) Its got to work cause every day we are pushing the pressures in the cooling system up and up. I do know of one Cup team now that i regular talk to and they have it up around 36 LBS(not a misprint) and run a pressure gauge like oil pressure. Seems lean is hp but builds heat and boils the coolant out. He wont tell me yet what they are using for coolant but i am sure everbody will know pretty quick. He gave me a hint he said if(to him thats a big if) they come to New Hampshire to race the day after thanksgiving and its snowing it wont freeze. As far as aluimn radiator sorta stumbled on to that looking for way to decrease weight in the front to get a 50-50 balance on this cars/trucks.Plus griffin radaitor have been a work of art.(i have guys that buy them cause there pretty LOL) I bet this will be debated for years to come,but if it works for you stick to it. I also keep the KISS factor in mind with verything i build.(probably why i only see a couple of my cars in books LOL) SCIENCE, nope just common sense to us normal rodders. What is a whilst ?? I have seen them in jags and stuff but really never new what they were,Do you need to get shots or??? LOL
Mik
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Drive like you stole it !!

This is going to be long folks so please forgive me for that....MIK.....I hate to be critical here and I feel that you are trying to defeat my cause and statements in some way, but you interject humor into it once in awhile..so I don't know what you are trying to say here, but I have to rebut some of your statements here.. and if you think that engineers just drive trains then it's easy to see why you don't understand thermal dynamics. Hehehe (oooooh that one was low!) Sorry?

Please do not propagate myths about cooling and don't quit your day job...it's a serious business and IS a safety issue in my mind. Since I can't put you thru thermo school here, I will try to give you some references and homework to do...maybe some bedtime reading. Slowing water/coolant in a closed loop cooling system for the purposes of getting increased cooling in a MYTH! Don't just take my word for it, go and check it out with any of your local thermal dynamics engineer (oops used that word again). And conversely to what you might think also, pressure has nothing to do with flow necessary..you can have both in any system. I will agree that the statement you made about the Cup cars running 36lbs to help with hot spots.....I am fully aware of this...then again they are making 700+ hp and turn 8000+RPMS meaning they absolutely need the pressure and flow by the way. You can still have all the pressure that you want at a very high flow rate. This is perfect in fact. The higher the flow(regardless of pressure) the higher the efficiency of the cooling system. This conventional wisdom is the very fact why hiflow pumps were invented, made and used by the way!

Back to conventional cooling systems. You don't have to forgive my statement about slowing coolant thru the radiator because THAT'S HOW IT WORKS. It's not just because you have heard this myth for years and believe it, it's because the system is a closed loop system and the longer it stays in the radiator the longer it stays in the block at the source of heat. As any coolant approaches it's corrected vapor point (esp water) it loses it's ability (rate and capacity) to absorb heat, so while you are trying to cool the water off in the raditor, the water won't absorb heat as much and the heat gets left behind and this starts a process which builds heat and can't be corrected unless you speed up flow. This fact often gets misreported when someone explains how if you just run an engine with no thermostat and it is often not cooling and put a restrictor in the coolant slows and the water is kept in the radiator longer therefore it cools better when in fact it's the introduced turbulance to the upper hose and radiator that is the culprit that is cooling the system....not the fact that the water is slowed!

There is a great explanation of this scientific fact in a book called Basic Thermal and Conduction Studies by Dr. Jonathon Egless of NASA, also a common used text book for college types, but since you probably don't have a copy of that laying around on your nite stand another thought is to go to one of the best web sites to explain this scientific fact at www.stewartcomponents.com and click tech forum and go and read the wealth of information put there by a man and company (engineers) that is one of the best cooling experts on the scene. And since you like the NASCAR guys and seem to have an appreciation for them, Stewart pumps have run on Winston Cup Cars for ages and Howard is a respected engineer in that whole group. That site is a good read and very accurate information.

Now for aluminum radiators. Aluminum radiators where around before Buddy Griffin invented them believe me. The regular car manufacturers where the ones who developed these for several reasons. One, is yes indeed they do save a little weight,but moreover their engineers (there's that word again, don't you just hate it when that happens) could design a radiator smaller (lighter and smaller frontal areas for CD issues) and would cool just as good or better than that of a copper/brass radiator plus are more rugged than their counter part as well. Plus solder is a poor conductor of heat and these could be aluminum welded for superior performance. This is why we have alum radiators today....just a better product and that's the reason they work better on rods and such and why Buddy Griffin is so rich and powerfull today. He beat everyone to the market!

So sorry for the disertation on cooling AGAIN, but it's important to me to defend what I know to be not only true in theory, but have seen it with my own two eyes as well thru empiracle testing and such.

Just my 4 dollars!




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Steve Jack
SOUTHEASTERN GOODGUYS REP

Thanks Steve......"NUTCASE" covers it.

Greetings,

Please be advised, I am with Evans Cooling Systems and it has not been our experience in thousands of installations that the Evans coolants (NPG and NPG+) cause any particular or unusual problems with gaskets. Could you please tell us your reference regarding such information as PG causing gaskets to gel? We would like the opportunity to check in to this and report back. Regarding our claims both in print and on the web, they have all been made after hundreds of thousands of miles of extensive testing and real world experience reported back to us. Thank you for your help.

D

Hey guys, if HOTRODSRJ says a rooster can pull a boxcar....hook 'em up!!

We are now going to get the calculation on how the rooster can pull a boxcar. But the Evans explanation will be worth waiting for.

Damn...just last week my buddy asked me if I wanted to buy his Bantam rooster, and I said no. Did he know something I don't???

phil
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One man's treasure is another man's trash.

Yeoman! you never heard of a big block in a Bantum?? Could lead to big eggs with the right combination...lol

--
Fred P.

Wonder how they cool that Bantum Rooster? If runs to hot it might crack the eggs...............
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Mike J

Poached for me thank you....... Why did the Bantem Rooster cross the road?

To get away from Steve's shop??
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One man's treasure is another man's trash.

Hey Doug, I would be glad to help you out here, ......you may or maynot remember me from one of the shows that we both attended and I attend so many that I don't know which one, but I introduced myself to you (at least I think it was you) a couple of years ago explaining that I was doing all this cooling system R&D for developing a new concept in products. You may or maynot remember that...I know you have alot of people come up to you and talk. Anyway...I have a full turn key pulley and bracket system hitting the market this winter (Concept ONE) and explained to you at the time that we included water pumps with our full conversion kits. At the time you mentioned to me that my product would not be compatiable with your products due to the conventional pumps and hardware that we were contemplating. It's not real clear to me that things have actually changed? I know what I read, but I have not any experience with the new products that you offer.

First let me say to you and everyone that reads this that I do not have an affilliation with any products that we are siting hear, nor am I saying that the EVans Products don't work in certain applications. I have stated several times that I see uses for these products and the readers can make their minds up for whatever they want to do. I just report...and I do try my best to be accurate....they decide (to take a line from a popular news channel these days). Also, alot of you know me here from Goodguys as a rep, and let me make it clear that this is in no way related to any Goodguys issues as well. I do not speak for the Goodguys when talking on such subjects. I speak from my own engineering and business experiences here.

Secondly, the comments about gaskets that you have referred to HAVE been discussed with at least one of your representatives by a company design engineer because we were concerned that both Stewart's and TuffStuff were telling us that propylene glycol in any form degradated the gasket materials and that was THEIR statements to us. We had also heard coincidental information with regard to some additives being detrimental to gaskets as well. This was to do with certain paper gaskets supplied with some water pumps. This is how we got ahold of the information and this is why I repeat it here. I will for the record go back and check my contact notes and recalibrate with the same source and report back if they still say the same thing etal. I also happened to mention this to Edelbrock engineers at the PRI show last year and they said that they used a Felpro style material with higher plastic content and this was impervious to degradation of the type that was mentioned. These gaskets are not expensive and I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to use a lesser one. WE supply the Felpro gaskets with all our kits regardless of pump supplied......we replace them ourselves just for this controversy!

In that it would be good to get to the bottom of this to see what the actual functional/problematic issues are here. I would be glad to talk with you on phone to recover my information to investigate just what types are at issue and which aren't. Please feel free to call at 770-418-0140 anytime during the day, I am in Atlanta or my email at hotrodsrj@aol.com . We are as anxious to get to know what the problems are especially if your systems can be compatible with our new products.


I will admit that I like your product(s) because they are environmentally friendly and very corrosion resistant as well as long lived. Also,I am extremely interested in your detoxifier for EG.

I look forward to hearing back from you.....more heads are better than one.



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Steve Jack
SOUTHEASTERN GOODGUYS REP

You surely do your home work HOTRODJOE (i have no idea why) I will say i think you still have a slight flaw in your thinking about restrictions(engineer or not) as we have slowed pumps down(as long as its a good flowing pump) with NO restriction and and had the same effect, longer time in the radiator cooler runnin. Either way you say it ,its a compromise. So if "coolant"(I have never used water as a coolant cause i dont like rust and it promotes cavitation)is in the block to long it will have steam pockets around the ex valves.If it is not in the block long enough it wont absorb as much heat. Same as the radiator ,not in it long enough the radiator does not disapte heat.Too long and it cant do its job.But having said all this ,it dont matter cause i NEVER have problems when i use the KISS. No special pumps,good griifin radiator and motors that are tuned on the conservetive side. It seems you might not like Mr Griffin for beating you to the punch. LOL I now see you are in the bussiness so.... i guess that were the "nutcase " part comes from. I think you might check not all teams use the howard stewart anymore . I know of a five teams that use there own design.Not saying he does not build quality stuff ,but i suspect you may be in bed with him???I.E. building concept one (please tell more as i have never heard of you and i am being honest) Correct me or am i reading to much into it. Step back some day from your slide rule someday and you will see a lot of rods out there that have NO problems by just using what you call meths. This could go on and on but in the end its what works for you. Were in hell did you get the safty factor from??(never thought my life would be in danger with a hot car,unless i stole it LOL)Guess its a good sales tool. Send more info on Concept one.
Mik
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Drive like you stole it !!

MIK....whatever, whilst the "ends" of your situation got solved, the "means" is/was not the reason....sorry, you can't sell me on an idea that is everyday corrorborated science...... OR maybe I should just give in.... I can't argue any more on this.....I don't know anything about it. I just throw all that engineering and experience away and go with just go with gut feelings. Whilst (there's that word again) KISS is a great and good attitude, it's only as good as simplicity is accurate. Just a thought for us common rodders. But please don't perpetuate this on the rest of us, since you don't realise it's a safety issue. I know of two stories one of which a cooling issue sidelined a fellow rodder on the ramp of an interstate on I90 only to be run over and killed by an approaching truck, the other having braved heavy traffic, pulled over to cool down only to be mugged and beaten......safety...naw....just because you can be left out in the middle of a highway or roadside all alone isn't anything to worry about. IF YOU DON'T SEE IT THAT WAY THEN YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT MISINFORMATION AND RESPONSIBLE REPORTING CAN DO! THIS IS IN FACT WHY I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ALL THESE MYTHS, IT IS A SAFETY ISSUE!

Pllllease don't even insinuate that I don't like Buddy Griffin. I do....! In fact I am not jealous of him, I respect him for bringing a great idea to us all. He was a pioneer in the industry on this one. And to pull the old "comspiracy theory" thinking with me on Howard Stewart, well.....I have no association with Howard or his old company which he sold....just engineers interested in mutual sciences. I don't even supply his pumps with my line of products, not because they are not good, it's because the company was just sold and I don't know how the wrinkles will work out. So....wrong again.....no association except respect.

Maybe you are reading me wrong. I am not suggesting here that you run out and completely change your cooling system for the sake of change alone. What I do offer here is no nonsense articles, based in science to explain how cooling systems really work since cooling seems to befuddle some. That's all! I do agree, if you have a perfectly good situation then why fix it? I am not preaching that everyone should just change at all! Don't know where you got that issue?

I am done on this subject here until I have something tangible to offer further on this subject as in more Evans information. I am sure the gang is tired of the foray!

Th-th-th-th-that's all folks!


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Steve Jack
SOUTHEASTERN GOODGUYS REP

Yep have got my death stories also. Old lady crossing the street going to church got run over and killed.(drivers car was overheating so he could not see were he was going) Never did hear about getting mugged cause your car overheated. Thats a good one. Just havin fun with you. I think maybe you are way above my level of mechanical skills,i just am a poor old dumb rodder that takes what works and stays with it, Thanks for the entertainment though.It WAS a eye opener. Your Dad did not waste his money on your schooling that is for sure.I am sure he is a very proud dad. Thanks for the debate . Now were the hell is that reducer washer so i can slow the coolant down in the cord. LOL Oh you never answered my question what the heck do you sell??? All joking aside ,i am new here
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Drive like you stole it !!