Was helping a friend look for a short in his 38 chevy. Which he just bought this last winter. The tail lights worked sometimes, We couldn't find the same color wire from the light switch to the tail lights. While tracing the wires to the tail lights we noticed all kinds of splices. He had brown wire spliced into an red wire then to a blue wire then a yellow wire, then another color. The longest wire was about 2 feet long. And another thing the wire was not all the same size.
He orderd a painless harness now.

Anybody else seen or had cars that were unsafe?
Tell me your story so some of us will know what to look for when buying a street rod. Or tell us what do you look at when your buying a street rod (turnkey).

Rick
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awsum34

Everyone that builds his car wishes he could find an unmolested gennie, but you settle for what's out there. I just cut over 100 pounds of plate and angle out of the frame to replace with a few pieces of folded 10 GA channels. For the cost you wonder why everyone doesn't start with the right mat'ls. Also threw away the driveshaft that had been cut in the middle and stick welded together. Cut out the rear that was 1/2" off center, etc. Biggest problem was the missing trim.

Cruzr......I have seen this in spades many times when looking at cars to purchase or for friends. How many times have we heard the slow grinding starter or seen those dim tail lights or dim head lights! My friends 56 that we rewired last year made him say....I have headlights now!! It simply was the wiring size and age.

Generally, wiring that is older than 1978 is suspect for several reasons. The first of which is that the wire insulation that was used up to then was elementary plastics that fell prey to heat and ozone attacks....making the plastic brittle and break away in some instances as well as a great bon fire starter. Cars prior to that period as well were not wire sized for extra current for all the accessories and high performance goodies like high voltage ignitions etc that are in demand today. This is frequently intertwined with many cuts and crimps.....hook-ons and the like. In other words.....a disaster just waiting to happen. The wiring kits of today feature the right size for the addons, fire resistant coverings, and protection that is harder to knick and won't be affected by heat, moisture or pollutants in the air. One of the vintage insurance companies are just getting to realise this (I assume they have had a few burn down) and asking if your vintage car has an updated or new wiring system in it. I think is should be one of the points of safety inspection that NSRA for their programs.....after all if you can't see dim lights it isn't safe.

Every car that I have ever purchased (even new ones) I have pulled the wiring out of and rewired it! The SRS roadster of the month in March of mine ........I purchased that as a rolling frame and body and the owner had started the wiring. The crimps were insufficient, the wires were loose in some places (but he thought he made up for it by using electrical tape on the terminals to keep them on), the wiring was undersized, and the charging circuit was all wrong (didn't go directly to the battery or battery terminal on the starter)(it was a Painless bought in 1994-95 by the way). I started with a new Centech wiring system.....the best there is in so far as I can researh. So....to answer your question.....yes!

I recommend looking for a modern wiring system that has been installed by a seasoned electrician. A simple crimping exercise is something that can be life threatening if it goes wrong in the wrong place. The underdash should be a nice and orderly run of wires and not a bunch of spaggetti looking runs. Solid grounds are important too. Look for several grounds from the motor etc. Grounds on fiberglass cars can be a real task. If you are not familiar with the issues here, I would have a professional look for you. Modern wiring kits should have the charging circuit go directly to the battery or the battery terminal on the starter...this is especially true with the high amperage charging alternators that are available today. Painless has been relentless on not doing this in the past in all their kits. I have seen dozens of Painless systems that pull the alternator feed though the fuse panel. This is a no-no and I would change it if you have one of these....and big one wires that feed 100 amps could really damage your system if not. I have fixed alot of these units. The symptoms of this are weak headlights, batteries that run down under night condition loads, or just run down and don't charge adequately, fuse block connectors that burn up due to excessive charge current, and frequently blowing fuses for some reason and poor starting performance to name a few.

One other minor thing. The use of welding cable as battery cables is not recommended even though the cable is a great current transmission device usually. I see this all the time as well. Welding cable is not designed to take the engine heat and possible dispursements such as gas and oil.....and moreover will wick up water at the starter end and corrode the cable up in the jacket so bad that the starter begins to slow. For under the hood use, go to the car stereo store for high quality, heat and oil resistant, albeit expensive battery cables. They look great.....in colors and are very low resistance.

Just my 2 cents.

Steve Jack

Steve Jack
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SOUTHEASTERN GOODGUYS REP

Hey Steve,

I am having problems with my Painless harness in my car. The wire that runs from the ignition to the neutral safety switch to the "S" terminal on the starter solenoid is not getting any power. I have checked everything and can't seem to find the problem. The wire is fine I have checked it very well. I have power everywhere else in the car What do you think?

Hi Allen, I takeing it you have juice to the ignition. Have you checked the termanal for juice that runs to the neutral safety switch? (could be the ignition). If you have power there then check the neutral safety switch to see if you have juice going to it and coming out.(the contacts inside the safety switch could be stuck)
Sometimes it's not the conection it's inside the termanals.


Hope this helps

Rick
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awsum34

Hi Cruzr,

Yes I have juice at the ignition but no juice from the wire at the neutral safety switch. I even bypassed the switch but still nothing. That whole wire is dead from the ignition to the starter solenoid. Puzzling huh? Thanks cruzr for your help!

Allen, Sounds like you might need a new ignition, sounds like the termanal that the wire hooks to is bad. One way to find out is wire it straight to the starter. and see if you can turn it over, use one other termanal..(take out the #1 spark plug out before trying to turn it over)( don't want it starting in gear) Use a trouble light to see if you have juice on all termanals behind the ignition. Turn the key and see if all termanals have juice.
Double check and see if you have the right wire going to the right place. Also i have seen some after market ignition labeled wrong. Is your ignition in the dash or on the column?
You should have juice on the acc side all the time while the key is in the on and acc.

hope this helps

Rick
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awsum34

Hey cruzr,
My ignition is in the column. I do have juice at all the wires on the ignition except this one wire. I tried wiring it right to the starter and even ran a new wire but still no juice. Everything else in the car works fine. I have been jacking with this wire for a few weeks now and have tried everything you could imagine. Thanks for your input.

I would check the connector on the end of the wire to the ignition to make sure it was crimped correctly. Sometimes the wire is slid into the connector so far that the crimp will wrap around the insulation. One of the hardest problems I ever had to troubleshoot was a wire broken inside the insulation right at the connector. However, like I usually say, might triumphs over right in the end! Good luck in finding the fix. Fred P
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Fred P.

Romex is bad, but I looked at a '54 truck project that was wired entirely in telephone wire.

Hi Fred,
Thanks for the tip. Thats something I have not looked into yet. I'm not giving up till I figure this out!

Allen, While you looking at the end of the wire, check the termanal itself in the switch and see if you got juice. You should have juice at the termanal. If not it's not your wiring to the neutral safety switch.
Did the connectors come with the harness? If so check and see if one of the connectors backed out of the block.


Rick
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awsum34

Hey cruzr,
I am going to work on the hot rod tonight. I will check the terminals and connectors while I'm looking at everything. Yes the connectors came with the harness and thats a good idea to check the fuse block. This problem has to be something simple. We are talking about a single wire that goes from the ignition to the starter solenoid. Thanks

SMITTY, Take the wire off of the ignition and starter and do an OHM test on that wire or use a jumper from ign. to start that should tell you if that wire is bad!!!
Good Luck, "Wheels"
--
I'am interested in the Early 40s style
look !

The juice will only be present when you turn the key to the starting position...it will be dead with just the ignition on....could be as simple as that..:-)


see ya
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see ya
Pep

Thanks Guys for all the help! Finally solved the problem last night after talking with the Painless tech guys. What we discovered was a couple of wires were installed wrong when the harness was manufactured. It took three techs and two days before they figured it out but it is fixed!

Steve; I have been doing street rod / hot rod wiring for over 35 years. The biggest single problem I run into is poor crimps on terminal ends. The first cause is cheap, no, read junk terminal ends. The second is junk terminal end crimpers. They usually crush the barrel of the terminal end resulting in very poor connections.

My first piece of advise is to look in the "yellow pages" under "aircraft" wiring supplies. Buy matching terminal ends and crimping tool. One company I use a lot is, "AMP", Aircraft Marine Products. Very good quality, and not much more expensive.

Second, go to your tool box, collect all the "cheap" wire stripers and crimpers, and throw them in the GARBAGE !!!! They cause almost all of the problems I have been reading about in this round table.

I agree that using welding cable, the regular type, is not the best for battery cables. However most welding supply shops have heat and chemical resistant cable available. Like the stereo cable it is more expensive. To prevent oil, water, etc. from "wicking" up the jacket I use a heavy wall shrink tubing over the terminal and up the cable a couple of inches. This type of shrink has a sealant inside that seals the cable. The shrink I use is also from "AMP". again expensive but has lasted for up to 8 years on a couple of jobs I have done.

Dave

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DAVE NESS

If you find inferior parts or workmanship , just think what has been done where you can't see or find it . Better to pass on the rod or figure on a complete rebuild. Keep this in mind when dickering on the price. It's generally more expensive to rebuild than to start from scratch. nough said RP peggys other half
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Peggy Diegan

This may be a little off the subject of wiring, but when I used to rebuild VW Beetles, you would be surprised at how many came in with copper tubing for brake lines...or even fuel line hose. Wonder why the brakes wouldn't stop the car??
Phil

Wish I could put every single one of you guys here in my pocket and take you with me when I go look at these rods. Your expertise just blows me away. I learn something new everytime I log on to this site. THANK YOU!!!
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YOUR ROD-LESS CRUZN BUDDY, DENISE

A short horror story on wiring in rods......

A fellow I know through a close friend bought a Ford 1956 F-100 truck prolly 12-15 years ago.

This truck was a home built unit and was a real nice looker. It had appeared in some magizines and won a few awards.

This guy bought the truck and drove it home from outta state. You know how it is when you buy a new toy, you tear it apart alittle to see how it is built.

The truck had been wired with romex house wire!! All the wires were hidden in the frame and where ever. Color code was black for ground and white for power! LOL


--
Tony

Tony, sounds like he was color blind..


Rick
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awsum34

Two cars come to mind: a '68 ElCamino that had tinfoil around half of the fuses and a Corvette that had only one working guage (oil pressure), and the fuel guage wire running two tailights out of the four. The wiring was so full of splices (covered with masking tape) that I drove it with a fire extinguisher laying on the passenger seat until my new main and rear harnesses arrived.
I also took a boating safety class where the coast guard showed a picture of a ratty fishing boat with a rusty car gas tank flopped in the back for fuel - with two car batteries laying on their sides on top of the tank. YOW!

HI, I HAD A SIMILAR NIGHTMARE. I BOUGHT THIS GLASS 32 3 WINDOW FROM A GUY IN CHIGAGO, IT WAS PARTIALLY DONE AT FIRST SITE. WHEN I GOT IT HOME IN NEW YORK, BTW WE BROUGHT IT HOME IN A CUBE VAN, IT WASNT RUNNING. WITH A LITTLE COAXING AND A PRAYER I GOT IT GOING. I WAS GOING TO GO DOWN THE ROAD TO SEE IF IT WENT STRAIGHT, SO I WENT ABOUT 5 FEET AND THE STEERING SHAFT FELL OFF FROM THE RACK. SO I PUSHED IT BACK INTO MY SHOP. WITH THAT, SMOKE CAME BILLOWING FROM THE COLUMN. IT SEEMS THE DONOR CAR WAS AN S-10 PICKUP, ALL THE DASH WIRING WAS FROM THE SAME USED PIECE OF GARBAGE PICKUP....WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? NEEDLESS TO SAY, I DID A COMPLETE FRAME OFF ON THE CAR, FROM THE GIT GO...... NOTHING...AND I MEAN NOTHING WAS RIGHT. ANYONE ELSE WOULD HAVE SLAPPED THE GUY SILLY FOR EVEN ATTEMTING TO BUILD THIS CAR, I DIDNT MIND THOUGH, ALL THE FUN WAS MINE TO REBUILD THE WHOLE THING. LUCKILY I HAVE A FULLY EQUIPPED SHOP. I DO RESTORATIONS ON ANTIQUE AUTO`S AND BUILD CUSTOMS AND HOTRODS HERE. I ALSO USED AN IDIDIT COLUMN, AND A PAINLESS WIRING SYSTEM. WHAT A GREAT KIT. OH YEA...THE ENGINE? HE SAID WAS A NEW CRATE MOTOR, YUP... IT WAS A 69 350 WITH ALL THE MILES, BUT IT WAS PAINTED REAL NICE. AGAIN I DIDNT MIND, I PUT A 417 STROKER IN ITS PLACE. IT ROCKS NOW. MY ONCE NIGHTMARE IS NOW A RELIABLE CROOZER. ...ED