OK' guyz.... This iz the question: My wife has 1953,2dr,Sedan. it's got the old 6 volt thang
goin on,she wants it to be be a 12 volt system for reasons understood"easier starting,brighter lights,Alternater vs. Generator.I understand all the Better reasons for having a 12 volt system.
MY question iz: Iz this a REEEEEEEL pain in the caboose to do??,what all has to be done,and is the time and effort and bucks to do it worth my time of trying to figure it all out ? I told her it's worth alot more to keep it original"which it is" but also I agree with the 12 volt conversion. All help iz greatly thanked ............. TUK
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Where there'z a will.... There'z a RELATIVE !!

How's the wireing? Unless this is an exceptional car my guess would be that it's due for a rewire. If that's the case I'd go for the 12 volt upgrade. As far as value, I don't know about your area but, here in the north west a 53 sedan is not a very valuable car. I had one in pretty good condition, V8, rebuilt auto trans. I had a hard time selling it for 1800.00 I don't mean that as a put down in any way, I just don't think the upgrade to 12 volt would make much differance. A lot of people would concider it more valuable with a rewire and 12 volt. I know I would. If it was mine I'd convert it and rewire it unless all the wireing is perfect. Most people tell me that the old wireing can handle the 12 volt fine if it's in good condition, but I think almost 50 years is longer than I trust any parts that have the potential to burn my car to the ground.

I also have a 53. Its a Vicky with a pretty stout 286 and still on 6V. Ive had no recent problems with starting, charging or weak headlights.
What I did find was decayed wiring under the hood from years of heat, water, oil, etc. That has been completely rewired and the combination of new wire with no broken strands and all new connectors/terminal blocks eliminated prior problems. Under dash and the rest is still in good condx.
I run a modern radio and have a 12V battery in the trunk, it requires charging about once a month.
Others use two 6V batteries, one kicks in just for starting and is then used for the radio. There was even a switch sold for this years ago.
Once you figure the requirements to go 12V with an alternator the final cost can approach $300.
A problem common to many 6V Fords that Ive owned is the configuration of the primary battery leads. I rewire so that the ground goes directly to a starter bolt and then another goes to a thoroughly cleaned frame location. All battery leads are new #1 or larger which my local store carries in Standard Brand. Also used a lot in marine applications. It made a huge difference in particular with my 6V 54 F-350.
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Carl
Automotive gold is everywhere; you just have to learn how to dig for it

I had a '54 chevy that had the old 6V system. Believe it or not it had electric windows and seat in the 6V style. The rewire is the best way to go. It is pretty simple with that old of a car. If the old wire is in good condition you can use it. But be careful! V=I*R, this is God's equation for electricity. What you would be concerned with is the wire handling the current, so the equation becomes I=V/R. As you can see if you keep R constant (wire is your resistance) and you change the voltage. The current goes up.

Simple example: Let's say your wire has a resistance of 10ohms (this is huge but easy to do the math). Then your current, I is I=6/10 so .6amps. For the 12V system, I=12/10 so I = 1.2amps. This is where you have to be careful. You can get that nasty smelling smoke if you do not obey this law.

I would recomend just doing a rewire. I have rewired numerous cars and if you need help just ask. It is like anything else in rodding. The only way you learn is by doing and you can always fix your mistakes.

Later,
Shane

The older 6 volt systems have wire that is (by ohms law) twice as big as would be required for a 12 volt system. In other words it can handle all 12 volt current requirements with no problem. The question as mentioned, what is the condition of the wire? A rewire if necessary is not too difficult with good instructions for those that have never done it before. I rewired a 51 Chevy then set it up for a 12 volt system. That part of the charging system was easy. All bulbs were changed to 12 volt types but the guages and radio I handled different from just a dropping resistor.
Since I have much experience in electronics, I used all my perts from Rad Shack to build a transistor regulator that was 12 volts in and 6 volts out and good for almost 10 amps which was a bit of overkill but the parts were cheap. With this, all guages and the radio were running from the regulated 6 volts now. The hitch in the system then was the vacuum wipers and rain-x wasen't around yet. Some of the older guys remember the old speed up (wipers stop) and then back off (wipers go like hell) so up hill in the rain was an adventure! I later found a 12 volt powered vacuum pump that fixed that problem.
The circuit for the 12 to 6 volt system came about when a pilot friend had a 24 volt system and needed 12 volts for a 2 way radio. The only change I had to make to the circuit was the reference control voltage. Very simple!
Ohms law is very simple. E over R/I where R=resistance, E=voltage, and I=current. Change one and another changes proportionaly. Power can be expressed by E times I.
If voltage is 1 volt and resistance is 1 ohm, current(I) is 1 amp etc. Power then is 1 volt times 1 amp which=1 watt Fred P
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Fred P.

Fred,
When I was writing that reply I was trying to figure out in my head why the bigger wire was ok to use for 12V systems. I always knew that the 6volt wire was ok but when I did the math it did not add up. I am glad you replied. The length of the wire adds some resistance but the big cross section lowers resistance.

Wait a minute maybe I am still confused a little. If you keep the resistance the same your current will of course increase when you use 12 volts, right? So why did they use such big wire in the older cars? Was it over kill?

Just thinking
Shane

Shane, I believe you answered your own question earlier. In a 6 or 12V system the POWER consumed measured in WATTS will remain the same for the sake of this discussion. Power is Volts times Amps. So if you require lets say 15 Amps in a 12V application, you will then need 30 Amps to give equivalance under 6V.
In a car the wire length remains the same so you need to go to a size that has an equivalent loss ratio considering either the doubling or halving the current....depending which way your approaching the issue from. This is where the I squared R comes into play.
Another way to look at it is lets just assume that your headlight requires 30 Amps and that the feed wire has 30 strands, each equally sharing the load. You break a few strands and you then have the remainders sharing the overload. This happens enough times over 50 years and you wind up with wire that has been overheated enough times to actually change its composition (annealing) and further increase the resistance (Loss). You lose enough strands and then you call the fire dept. Its a simplistic explanation but I hope everyone can get something out of it.

Ive been into electronics since I was 14 and it has paid the bills, car hobby and/or mortgage ever since. Geeez, its hard to realize I got my ham radio license in 1955, the same year I was working part time for a friends dad's body shop. Built my first radio and chopped my first top all in the same year.....1956. Being that this is a family forum I wont go into the 3rd experience that year!


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Carl
Automotive gold is everywhere; you just have to learn how to dig for it

he he Carl! well put! lol Also another way to also put the wiring in perspective is to consider it as only a conduit that does have a small amout of resistance but not near the resistance of the load. When ordering a rewire system for a 6volt system that will be updated to 12 volts, the wire is usually sized for the 12 volt system. Either wiring system is fine but a 12 volt wiring system used for 6 volts is a no no. You already know this but maybe we can pass on some of the "magic" of electronics. Fred P

PS, I'm WA5WZD and used to be WB4JNF.
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Fred P.

You want to see interesting concepts? I think one of the luxury car manufacturers is supposed to go to either 24 or 36 volts -- I can't remember off the top of my head. The reasoning . . . more electronic gadgets in cars. It would be wild to think about 12 volt as being "dated" like 6 volt once was. (Or gas engines????)
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Bradley Miller
http://morris.accesszone.com -- Honey I shrunk the street rod

First of all, there are some really good points here and great advice for you to ponder. I would like to add a bit more please.

I humbly offer you my background of being an Senior Engineer and wiring inpector for American Electric Power (this was my first real job) at the DC Cook Nuclear plant (as well as there entire transmission and distribution grid)in prior lives as some qualification to comment. I had months and months of comprehensive training and hands-on (these plants have both AC and DC wiring and circuits everything from 765,000 AC to 6 volts DC.)just on wiring alone...this even after engineering and avionics school (also tremendously wiring oriented). I also have ran circuit board and electronics assembly businesses in some matter for a better part of 20 years of my career at sometime or another. I only offer this as a calibration only...there are guys that do nothing but wire cars etc that have more hands-on experience than I do about this and this is not to outdo the next guy or anything like that...just information for what it's worth.

I certainly do not want anyones car to become unoperable and/or unsafe and/or burn down and create all kinds of functional problems as well as safety issues. My next technical article that you will see will be on wiring and the attributes of today's wiring systems and related components, due out in January on several web sites and one publication hopefully. I do have a chapter on old wiring and here is a real short readers digest version.

Please be forewarned that you cannot determine the condition of wiring solely just by looking at it or just checking for shorts and breaks alone. The aging (both time and chemically) of such materials of the wiring have to be taken into account as well as the employed technology in that era. The insulation that was used back then is/was not moisture, UV or ozone resistive in anyway by today's standards and the insulation/connectors/wiring of that era are definitely at the point of needing replacement regardless of where it was stored or how many miles it has, OR HOW IT LOOKS. The deterioration of this insulation has already taken place (yes, I know there are those of you that have cars still operating on this technology). Moreover, years of moisture has soaked into the seams, nooks and crannies of strands, connections and terminals making the copper etch away (ever see the copper oxide..bluish green color) causing high resistance terminals et al. This in and of itself can cause a fire resulting from high current demands on the circuit thru the corroded connnection and this connection heats up to insulation burning temps very easily. When adding modern 12 volt accessories on a 6 volt system we think that the wiring has enough crossectional area to remedy the current demand.....but we don't think about the tremendous increase in the wattage and therefore current required and any degradation of the connectors that inject resistance. This factor pretty well negates the bigger wire for 6 volts will always handle the 12 current. On top of that, by upgrading your starting circuit to big 12 volt starters with lots of iron in them....the current inrush creates a big DC spike on the DC bus that may or maynot further degradate wiring left in place due to it's inability to handle such surges and was simply not designed to take such.

I personally know of two differing situations with early 50s cars that the wiring was inspected (by puported professionals) and converted to 12 volts, only to burn down a year or two later. My dad's 55 has original wiring in it and it looks and works real good and is 12 volts, but is coming out this winter for sure....I have been the delay in that changeout....sorry dad!

The real point of my response here is to implore you to change it out for a quality system, nothing more and nothing less.

Modern manufacturers are going to a 42 volt design as soon as 2003 to balance the current verus wiring size needs of the future auto.

Just my 2 sense.
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Steve Jack
SOUTHEASTERN GOODGUYS REP

Hi Tukster,
I have changed lots and lots of cars,trucks & tractors from 6 volt to 12 volts. If your wires (insulation) is in good condition, You will not have any problems. You can use your 6 volt starter, Change your lights to 12 volt,install a alternator ,coil, resister before your pionts, and your ready to go. If you need it in writting go to www.speedwaymotors.com and buy a booklet for $6.00 or so Called Hot Rod wiring ,or something like that. Have speedway send you a free catalog and buy that booklet. You will be happy you did. Regards,HonestFrank
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"VEO DINDICE"