Any one else check out the pics posted over on the HAMB about the Heidt's Mustang 2 front crossmember failure?? THAT is some scary stuff!!! One of the main reasons I decided to go with a complete frame change,instead of cutting in a crossmember in the front and boxing up 60 year old frame rails! If you have one of these setups,it might not hurt to take a VERY close look at it.
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Build it so low,you have to step DOWN to get in !!!

Check it out. It wasn't the 56 year old metal that failed,
It was Heidts crossmember.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/026126.html


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Charlie

ya I know....THAT'S the scary part......I had considered using that front suspension setup!! What scared me off from using it is the small amount of metal that supports the lower A-arms. That and the amount of work involved in adding the front crossmember, modifying the rear part of the frame to accept a 4 bar setup,then having to box the original rails to make them stronger.In my application,it just would not have worked like I wanted it to.IMHO.
Still some scary stuff!!!
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Build it so low,you have to step DOWN to get in !!!

It really makes you stop and think.
--
awsum34

Why do people park in a driveway, and drive in a parkway?

Well, after reviewing the article and long thread....my thoughts: We build these rods from a number of different sourced parts. There are no two installations the same. It is uterly important and our own responsibility to constantly examine our work regularly to ensure our particular installation is holding up as it should. The failure in this case would have been discovered andd corrected long ago if regular inspection had been done. I don't trust any manufacturers aftermarket stuff because they cannot control the installation and maintenance/inspection. Car manufacturers build their units in controlled environments and they still have problems. What makes us think we can install rengineered aftermarket stuff and walk away from it? Bloody arragant of us to think we are superior to the vehicle makers....I know they are not perfect but....think about it.

Thanks for reading.
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JIM member of "Critiques"
"We've upt our standards, so now, up yours"
"You build em, we rip em apart"

I'm reading this thread and will watch it with much interest as I've got this front end on my, lighter I know, 32.
Although lacking the work and technical experience too take sides, it became obvious to me while following the thread, where the short comings are in this front end design. That being said, the question is whether they (the short comings) are significant.

If I was a betting man I'd bet that Heidt's first response (take it here and we'll pay for the fix) was from the heart and his honest inclination towards fellow rodders and his customer base. I'd also bet that he secondly contacted his attorney who exploded on him about his admission of responsibility through word or action (fixing it). His offer to fix and we'll pay it was not a smart offer in such a litigious society.
I also believe that the second offer to fix it, from the rod shop, along with getting the parts from Heidt's was probably a back door agreement between Heidt's and the rod shop in order too resolve the problem quickly and amicably. I would have at least gotten a price from the rod shop to see where things stood. With this solution things get fixed and nobody is out to dry in future incidents, if they show up.

I also was surprised at the condition of the vehicle in question. Looked kind of rough for a rodders car and the point about the rust prior to failure was well taken I thought.
(It's since been pointed out to me that it's a daily driver that's ridden hard....yet)

Finally, no government intervention is best........Frank's Two Cent's

Ouch! Thank the lord both rides we had were clipped with 'Maros.
--
MD Chapter - D.S.R.A & Lifetime N.S.R.A Member
----
Hot Rod/Custom Car Amateur Designer/Illustrator, Contact via E-Mail if interested.

Stock Must.II front ends were daily drivers, several thousand miles a year and I've never seen one fail like this. When you put your money up to buy something that is supposed to be stronger, better and easier to install than than a stock part, you expect to be able to drive as much as you want. You expect it to hold up. The point about the rust isn't all that significant. Maybe the crack could have been spotted sooner, before the part broke completely. Never the less, the main point is that is broke at all. I've worked with alot of steel and freshly cut or broken steel will rust considerably faster than will weathered steel. New steel comes with a coating on it to keep surface rust from forming on it. Hopefully this company will do all they can to find the cause of this problem and do all that they can to keep it from happening to anyone else.

Those of you that have seen that mess have to ask yourselves a few questions. Would your rod look that bad in just 2 years of everday use? Dont be to quick to blame the manufact on this one. That pile of crap dont look like it should have been on the road anyway. the install was marginal. That DID NOT happen overnite. It was driven with problems that dont show in those pix and not corrected. I have not seen many heidts failures at all(maybe a few strut rods) the ones that have failed were installed poorly.. You want to see the camaro's with broken frames ? Sorry but if i was heidts i would have said forget it after i saw the install and had to listen to the customer tell me how bad my product was. I know of another manufact that is 10X worse and have seen split crossmembers that were just ground down to far.(but i stopped telling of them because of JW)
Sorry but i do this for a living and that one dont look like Heidts problem. More like bad install and a driver that should not own a rod(no maintaince) I wonder if the a-frames were bottoming out and how high a spring rate was in the car to set ride height. There is more to that than meets the eye. I also question that it looks to have been fixed before and has some really weird lower a-frames.The point about rust is not significant??? You are kidding i hope. When you see those rust lines on a suspension part...you better go looking for a loose part or crack some were. I dont mean surface rust. That car was driven many miles with lots of problems...not all were the manufacture. I dont sell heidts or know Gary at all. Just my take doing this a lot. Have heidts,TCI and progressive and have nothing but good to say about all ..also have them under some cars a lot heaver than that one
--
Honest officer i aint speeding
I am qualifiying!!!!!!!!!

Maybe you and I are looking at 2 different pictures. Which pile of crap are you looking at. Just exactly what do you see that is a bad installation. The major rust that is seen is on the tube running through the crossmember for the pivot bolt to pass through, the rust on the brake line is really a big deal. I'm not blaming the manufacturer, I'm not blaming the builder. In fact I'm not blaming anyone and on the other hand I'm not standing up for anyone. If you will look at how the crossmember is made there several areas that can be a sorce for problems to occure. I've worked with structural steel for many years and you learn NOT to have square cut corners as this crossmember does. These square corners are places where cracks begin. This A-arm looks similar to many on the market to get rid of the strut rods, all of them places the rear pivot quite aways from the crossmember and that little gusset attaches in the area of the questionable break. Maybe the design needs to be looked at. The important issue is to find what caused the problem. You can blame the owner, who apparently drives their car and doesn't leave it in the garage, may not spend the day wiping every spect of dust off of it, or we can strive to prevent this from happening to someone else. If the installation is faulty let's educate builders to prevent this. If it is the fault of the manufacturer let's demand they correct the problem.

I was thinking of going with the Mustang II type front end on the rodmonster. Now that I've seen this, weather it be installer or manufacteur's problem, I'm glad I am going with a 85 'vette front end unit. Dave
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Life's too short to drive an ughly car!
Massachusetts Safety Inspecter for KKOA
www.geocities.com/stupidbaker57/custom_green

The vette stuff works very good Dave but its still is on the same idea with the lower bolts...well allmost except they are even wider unless you use the stock crossmember which is rather light duty to change around.(am doing 1 for myself now Dave if you want to see pix's) I looked at the pixs again ..guess i just see things that others dont . Like the mark in the front part of the crossmember were it looks to have bottomed out and a-frame. Its not the surface rust i question it the rust trails from the tube that goes through the frame and what looks to be some repair welds. Also the fact that the crossmember is rusted were it should be welded??? hey it dont take to much to figure if rust is on a spot that welded something is wrong. Dont really matter anyway. I have not seen any other so.................it dont happen . I would suspect that the lower a-frames are either shorter or longer. As i look at them they look really poorly made and may have not been in a straight line were the bushings go....Big bind evertime you go up or down in travel. Just a guess. Man i guess we use diff salt around here. My plow truck dont even look that bad on the bottom with 120,000 miles and 11 years old...it aint a trailer queen LOL But it does pull a trailer. Forget it and move on.....it dont happen..there is more to the story. Ok next you want to see pix's of a camaro clip job that failed and about killed a guy...Only as good as the guy installing it.........
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Honest officer i aint speeding
I am qualifiying!!!!!!!!!

This is rather interesting. (1) Bad product, (2) neglect, (3) improper installation or (4) a combination of the three. It seems something was putting a lot of stress where it should not have been. I can not tell from the pictures exactly. There was some rust on one spot that tore, that seemed to have been there before the total failure.I would like to have seen pictures of how the car was setting before. Of course cosmos if going to defend his position. Hopefully Heidt will post their side as well. It doesn't matter if Cosmos is the best guy in the world or not. Something went wrong. Hope we end up with an answer.
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Mike J
Unchartered DSRA Member
If it ain't broke, fix it anyway...

I dont really understand all the bashing of Cosmos car, actually ex-car.
It was built 2 years ago and was his wifes daily driver in Chicago, not the best place to be at any time of the year as far as roads go. Lived there myself a few years.

Now, him and his wife have been going thru a lot of nasty divorce stuff, she moved out a year or so ago. So no, it doesnt get looked at regularly and it was a salt belt car to start with, not something from the land of sun and prunes.

How many actually regularly check completely under their rides once all the bugs are worked out? How about the checkbook rodders here, dont you expect perfection for your money? And not have to jack it up monthly to see if its falling apart.
I offer that some wouldnt even know what to look for since they are not trained in the automotive, stress analysis or metalurgy fields. Its just a hobby.

OTOH, we do have those here who consider themselves experts but do they share that knowledge with in depth tech articles? But boy they come out and bash just like Monday morning quarterbacks or when it may affect their paychecks.

If a Camaro clip is so bad why not explain how to make it good instead of the constant negatives?


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Carl
Zero Rust Distributor
Body Shop and Welding Supplies

While at the Ol' Marais River Run in October I looked at a '53 Ford pickup that might be the answer to Must II vs Camero clip. It was equipt with the complete front suspension from a strut type late model Pontiac Firebird/TransAm/Camero. The owner said it was the 3rd such vehicle that he had used 1 of these units on. According to him the entire front suspension unbolts as a complete unit, sway bar, brakes and all. When I first looked under the hood I thought MustII, then I saw the struts. He put the unit in place connected the bottom and ran round tubing (2 pieces per side) from the frame up to connect to the top of the struts. He said it was all very straight forward, simple, handled great and aren't all that expensive. It looked very good.

Hey Carl if your talkin about my paycheck...forget it....i got work for the next 12-16 months and not taking anymore for a while LOL. I guess its ok to publicly bash a company(with a few stabs at federal whistle blowing which is rather laugable) but not give another take on it. Carl i will make you this offer....I will send all the how to and step by step info on a camaro clip(with pix's LOL) and you write the article and post it. LOL I am crummy at the key board and thats what grts me in trouble most times. Good point about checkbookers.....i try and have most customer cars come back in 1 month and 4 months of driving as i am sure Ed and a few other quality builder do. (500 MILES is best) Nobody is perfect....and ship does happen.(leaky racks, brake lines that get to close,new springs that drop ride height, tire wear) If i could do a clip cheaper and better i would have no problem ...just dont work out that way anymore. Instead of being mad that thing would have been cut apart and fixed in about 12 hours. I really think we should have seen the complete car and tire wear before any of us came to ideas. I also found that this is a family having problems......seen it time and again.....wife runs said car into the ground during the break-up(even had one nasty wife beat the crap out of her own car with a hammer and blame it on the hubby) Not just rods either. Oh well nobody wins and the poor guy has a mess on his hands. But nobody got hurt so back to work till the next wiring harness catches fire....rim cracks....trans locks up on the freeway.....header crack.....axle breaks.....chrome peels......tire blows out at 60 mph.....drop spindle shears off......and the beat goes on........At least a lot of guys will get under and look now i bet..LOL Oh and the strut camaro frontend is pretty cool but it wont fit most rods and you have one heck of a fab job building the upper mounts so they dont flex/move...good idea if you tie both sides together as in a race car. Not so good for a rod...not impossable..but pretty tough to pull of correctly./
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Honest officer i aint speeding
I am qualifiying!!!!!!!!!

lostandfound I'll pass along your info to the guy that put the strut front end in that '53 Ford pickup. I'll let him know how difficult it is and that you said it wasn't impossible though. Since he has built 3 vehicles that are now running on the road with this setup, I'm sure he will appreciate knowing this. I'll also tell him that he must be mistaken about simple and easy they were to install. I wish I would have had this great insight from you before and I could have told him how really full of it he is.

Just wanted to post the reply that Gary Heidt sent to Ryan at the HAMB:


Ryan, I thought that I should keep you up to date on the situation with Jeff Fennema and his 46 Ford. We have sent replacement parts to The Roadster Shop to repair his car, at no cost to him. I felt that we can certainly afford to help him out, especially since he is in a delicate situation with some personal problems. I would be lying, however, if I said that I thought that there was a problem with our parts. This crossmember and control arm design has stood the test of time. An estimate of all the manufacturers in entire street rod industry would show that there were probably a total of 30,000 sets of control arms and 40,000 crossmembers sold in the last 10 years combined. Of all these products out there from all these companies, don’t you think that if there was a genuine problem with this type of design that there would be hundreds and hundreds of failures, not just a hand full? I feel that this was just an isolated case of an improper installation of the product. Perhaps Jeff thought that he did a correct job when he built his car. I know an NSRA rep that has one of our suspension systems on his car which he installed about 12 years age and he now has over 100,000 miles on it. Yes, that is a 1 with five zeros behind it! How many pot holes do you think he has hit in 100,000 miles. Going to the shows and listening to people tell us about how much they enjoy driving their cars with our suspension kits on them and how they have driven 10,000 or 20,000 or 50,000 miles makes me feel very confident about our products. Then an incident like this comes along, where after 15,000 miles there is a major problem with a particular car. After all the kits we and all the other street rod companies have sold through the years I just cannot believe that there is a design problem with the product. Then I am held responsible, even I had absolutely no control over the installation or the way the car was maintained or driven. It is just as if you were to install a new set of American Racing aluminum wheels with the conical taper lug nuts. Everyone knows that they must be retightened a couple of times until the lugs seat into the aluminum or they will come lose. The wheel falls off because they were not retorqued after they were installed, but American Racing is now held responsible for the damage. They did not install the wheels, nor did they have the opportunity to maintain them, just as I did not. It is very disappointing that all this happened, but it is just as disappointing to be accused of creating faulty products, just as American Racing did not create faulty wheels. I did offered an explanation to Jeff about how I thought his car failed, even though he said that I did not. It is very disappointing when you are misquoted. I have given my life to this company and this industry, and the products we sell have stood the test of time. I don’t think that we would have won all the awards from the NSRA if were selling faulty products. As far as testing our products, we introduced our Superide Independent Rear Suspension kits recently. I installed the first one in my `57 Chevy pick-up. It was a great opportunity to test a new product, as we left the box off the truck for two weeks so we could do torque and force measurements easily. I went out and pounded on it as much as I could for those two weeks, literally driving through every pot hole and railroad track I could find. This kind of testing was great, as it showed that the design was sound. So yes, we do test our products. Also, if you notice the little fish in our logo, you will know that I answer to a higher authority than the people who buy our products. It is for that reason if no other that we are working with Jeff on his car. I will keep you posted as to the progress of the car.

Yours truly, Gary Heidt


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Your "top-less" cruzn buddy, Denise

Lipstick Run Survivor

http://www.geocities.com/lipstickrun/
www.loboys.com

Denise...thanks for posting the other guys take. I have met Gary only once and I can tell he is an upstanding guy.

His explanation moreover than anything else, the time lapse and number of units tells me as an statistical analysis engineer that the product is safe. This a given unless they have changed appreciably the way the manufacture it. I do not know that and it was not commented on perse.

Like I pointed out before, we do not know how the car was treated or maintained...critical to the failure analysis.

Good job Denise.
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Steve Jack
Marketing Technologies Limited,LLC
ConceptOne Brackets and Pulleys

i should just leave this alone but, the little fish don't mean s**t to me ( i believe in a supreme being, just not organized crime, uh, i mean religion) but i know a LOT of people using Heidts stuff (myself included) and WOULD NOT hesitate to install another(and another, and another,etc)

particulaly after putting a superide in a 57 chevy pu that was "only" supposed to pull a 2 horse trailer "occasionally"


...ended up with a gooseneck 3 horse w/tack room.

beat the coilovers out of it (shock failed, NOT the mounts)...only problem with it after 4 years.


btw, i installed it so MY ass is on the line, too....
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If ya ain't drivin' it, it's just junk in the garage...

I thought the little fish ment he "hooked" another one! hehe
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Charlie

Guys it took me a while to get what you were getting at, does that mean if some rodders are jerks, all rodders are jerks? Something to think about.

Man... This is taking an ugly turn.
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The "New" and Unimproved edcroozer... Charter D.S.R.A. member

Were did you get that from?
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Charlie

The fish thing. If some are something or not something then they all are.

You been into the moonshine tonight? You make no sense.
It was a joke. Get it? Hooked another fish to buy his product?
Ah forget it.
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Charlie

Flak jackets anyone? ...lol
--
The "New" and Unimproved edcroozer... Charter D.S.R.A. member

Heidts makes a good product. I've been running their drop spindles for some time now, and I'd buy their crossmember too if I needed one. This looks like an isolated case to me.
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Wear your seatbelt.

Ed......I have to meet up with you somewhere soon. You're a funny guy. (I am not coming to your place in the winter...no gloves). I love the way you inject humor at the right time. I laffed this morning sooooooo hard at the flak jacket statement until the preverbial coffee came out my nose!....and as you can see it's pretty early....hard to get my laffer going!

So, here I sit, coffee stained and all in my sweatclothes when my wife comes out to say "why are you out here making so much of a racket....what the heck is sooooo funny....did Jeff Foxworthy stop by for breakfast?" The situation was so funny that I couldn't get the answer out! RLOLTLCOO! (REALLY LAUGHING OUT LOUD TIL a LIQUID CAME OUT an ORFICE!) Ed, you have inspired me to create a new laff word!
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Steve Jack
Marketing Technologies Limited,LLC
ConceptOne Brackets and Pulleys

Methinks we're on to something here! New 'puter vocab compliments of Ed & Steve! Gotta love it! LOL

Grant
--
MD Chapter - D.S.R.A & Lifetime N.S.R.A Member
----
Hot Rod/Custom Car Amateur Designer/Illustrator, Contact via E-Mail if interested.

Last I knew no one has taken a bullet online yet! hehe
--
Charlie

Slik's comment about the little fish doesn't mean s**t to him, then crime , religion. This is what I was refering to. Just because some people in religion are "crooks" doesn't mean everyone in religion are crooks, does it? This was no time or place for this comment. Heidt says he answers to someone higher in his statement, but he didn't post it here, if this is what caused him to replace the broken parts, so be it. Slik can beliieve what he wants to, Heidt can believe what he wants to, but the blaket statement about crooks, if 1 is they all are, is what I'm talking about. That's why I said if 1 rodder is a jenk, then they all are. Rodders of all people shouldn't get into pointing fingers or this name called business. In years past anyone with a hot rod was a hoodlum, we know that they were not and still are not.

hey, i didn't bring the "fish" to this party,there, spanky....

and it STILL doesn't mean poop to me.

that WAS my point!

BTW, i thought i was standing up for heidts.....so obviously i don't think everyone that's religeous is a thief,adulterer/back-stabber/etc....

it's the ones that think THEIR religeon is the "correct" one that i got's the problem with..

so much for the sermon, let's talk politics ;)
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If ya ain't drivin' it, it's just junk in the garage...

Steve you dont want to meet ED...just ask Charlie!! You will never be right again....... Just seeing(well hearing first) will have you laughing. King of the one liners for sure. I really think he is Johnny Carson/Ozzy all mixed into one. Hey Tom i will say it than...relgion dont mean ship to me!!! Dont care if your proud of it or not proud. Dont care if you sell parts or dont. Has no bearing on me as i believe in nothing i dont see...well maybe santa clause cause i really need some new crossmembers, all my other ones are real dangerous and i am going to have to cut em out next week...or better yet sell everything with one cause i really am afraid to drive it...pennys on the dollar cause it anit safe . Come on people this was a JOKE it dont happen but in a handfull of installs done poorly. heck the ones i hate wont kill yah they just drive real bad......... Now having said that i am as dum as a box of rocks ..what the heck does a fish mean???? I really dont know.....i dont go to church,so i guess i am lost and not found after all..
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Honest officer i aint speeding
I am qualifiying!!!!!!!!!

I don't want to add to the arguement about the fish but there is a history that involves the fish.

In the old days Before christ's birth when the philistines were attacking people (christians) who belived in god, the fish was symbol the christians drew in the ground as a code to see if the other people around them noticed, if the other people noticed and drew it too that meant the "others" were also christians. it was a way to find out who were belivers and who were not. it was a way of protection becuase the philistine killed people who belived in god.

Just my .02 :-)
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if ya own a chevy, you da man!!

Thanks for the insight, learn something new every day. Thats what we're here for. Even us "old" folks can learn from the "young" ones. Thanks Caleb. :)
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Your "top-less" cruzn buddy, Denise

Lipstick Run Survivor

http://www.geocities.com/lipstickrun/
www.loboys.com

Hey now thats something i really did not know. Thanks! Wonder how come they picked on fish? Fans huh?? That would be COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL......Dont mind me the meds are just kickin in....
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Honest officer i aint speeding
I am qualifiying!!!!!!!!!

Choir practice is tonight ... I'll and speak to Father O'Touchy about this fishy thingy.
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I'll admit , she can't wrestle , but you should see her box.

I thought you were going to Montana soon, (to be a dental floss tycoon).
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Wear your seatbelt.

There were no christians before Jesus. But the symbol of the fish was use by the christian ,perhaps because the Romans kept feeding the ones they knew to the lions. When the emperor of Rome declared christianity to be the offical religion of Rome, (around 323ad), I believe they quit feeding them to the lions at this time. Thus the start of the Roman Catholic Church. It maybe true or close enough........:)
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Mike J
Unchartered DSRA Member
If it ain't broke, fix it anyway...

Thanks Caleb. You never cease to impress me.
--
Wear your seatbelt.

You posted in reply to me, not to Tom.
BTW I agree with you.
But I also don't like to see people use religion in their business dealings to try and make themselves look more honest.
But as you said, Gary didn't post that. It was a private email.
Did I mention that Democrats suck? hehe


--
Charlie

Gary wanted that e-mail posted to any site that was discussing the issue.
--
Your "top-less" cruzn buddy, Denise

Lipstick Run Survivor

http://www.geocities.com/lipstickrun/
www.loboys.com

Hey Ed.....I'll take that flak jacket now! I stay away from the religious discussions but don't want to be collateral!


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Steve Jack
Marketing Technologies Limited,LLC
ConceptOne Brackets and Pulleys

HEY!!!! Let's talk about fans. That ought to heat this up or cool em down. Heh heh heh B-O-B----------DSRA
--
Smoke um if ya got um
Burn Out Bob DSRA member

I N C O M I N g !!!!!!! Take cover!!
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The "New" and Unimproved edcroozer... Charter D.S.R.A. member

Hit the deck maybe? LOL
--
MD Chapter - D.S.R.A & Lifetime N.S.R.A Member
----
Hot Rod/Custom Car Amateur Designer/Illustrator, Contact via E-Mail if interested.

I'd rather hit the bottle, but the doc won't let me! hehe
--
Charlie

When i raced the oval track car i allways had a real small 666 on the bottom of the fenders(you could barely see it from the stands) some drivers really got offended by it till i told them why it was there. I helped out a bible school or some kind of church by working on there old school bus(very nice people not pushy) and when it was ready to drive got it reg for them. Well the dummy that i am i did not think twice about the plate they gave me for the bus it was 666- something(i forget now) They had a sence of humor cause it was on there for a few years. So i learned what 666 was so i used to stick it on all my race cars cause i really did not like the # 13 or the color green at the time(bad luck to some guys) I finally was asked by a promoter to remove it one day or i would not get paid for that nite. I used to even put it on the bottom of the intake to scare the heck out of the engine builder cause it really bothered him LOL . Even set him up one nite ..got a pix of him holding my timing light with 666 on the handle in magic marker. Poor guy would not even run the valves anymore cause it was on the insides of the valve covers.
So now i know what a fish means i will have to start using it...my rainbow is about worn out LOL Thats a story i dont want to get into....yikes was i ever stupid.....Guess i still am..
--
Honest officer i aint speeding
I am qualifiying!!!!!!!!!

A parent complained to a school principal where I worked. They did not want there child doing any math with the fraction 2/3 in it since that converts to the decimal .666. To acess one of our internet friends home from the eastern route, (Sumner, 1 FAT GMC) you will probably take Utah route 666. As I remember to avoid driving on this number highway it would be a very lengthy detour. Funny how a number means so much to some people.

I believe strongly in the freedom of religon. I do not think a business should display their religous beliefs to encourage you to buy their product. It has the oposite effect on me.

The relgion stuff dont bother me so much as long as it is not pushed on me. Heck if there proud of it so be it. Too me its just like those stupid decals you see on cars and trucks with a little kid p*ssin on another brand. Wish i could find the pixs the track photo guy gave me of my racecars front bumper stuffed up into the back of a pretty good friend of mines car. The back of the car said Jesus loves you and i had the front bumper in that panel about a foot...what you didnt see was the guy behind me pushin me into him LOL Boy did i hear about that for a few weeks. The 666 beatin up on the poor Jesus loves you car.....we all had a good laugh about it when the track photo guy showed us. We had not even thought twice about it...it was a real 1/4 mile bullring soo......ship happens...that decal had to go also..I guess i have allways been a trouble maker.......LOL.......
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Honest officer i aint speeding
I am qualifiying!!!!!!!!!

From Must II, to divorce,to democrat interns, to flak jackets, Incoming, Frank Zappa, fish decals, religon, calvin p**sing,...ahh... diversity is freedom!!!
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Wear your seatbelt.

All on the same thread. :)) Typical SRS LOL I love it.

It is nice and refreshing to be able to learn, teach, discuss any and all topics, in an adult fashion, on a forum with your peers. I enjoy hearing others' points of view, on different subjects.
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Your "top-less" cruzn buddy, Denise

Lipstick Run Survivor

http://www.geocities.com/lipstickrun/
www.loboys.com

You're right Denise!! Ya gotta love it! lol There are some stories on here that are just as funny as the "Blonde Cowboy"!! I doubt if that one will ever make it to the archives cause it never gets finished!
Love the 666 racing tale and the Jesus car! Course here in Texas Jesus is pronounced differently...kinda like Haysuess....The question is: If ya could name your kid Hayseuss, could ya really name him da Devil?? I know, I raised three boys and a girl (the youngest) and for awhile I wanted to name her @%$!!*&#&%% and called her our Prozak poster child then one day she comes home from school, sez she wants home school and started in at one end of the library and went to the other and was an Angel.. Anyone that can help explain the phenomena will be a saint in my book!! LOL maybe a Ladies input...J/K BTW, she's now 23, married with a daughter, and owns her own packaging business..not bad when she aced her GED!! I still think someone replaced her sometimes lol FredP
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Fred P.

Problem resolved to everyones satisfaction.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/026893.html
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Your "top-less" cruzn buddy, Denise

www.loboys.com

Not totally Denise. He never winked at CalifCarl yet. The damn thing failed and we will never completely know why until it happens again. I have my ideas but that's just speculations on my part.

Your right, he's not "talking" about WHY it happened. That doesn't mean that it was the products fault though. My point was that he got the car fixed at NO COST TO HIM, no matter who's "fault" it was. I think this proves Gary is a stand up guy. If it WAS Gary's fault, he fixed it. If it WASN'T his fault, he still fixed it. A very generous move on his part and with the Roadster Shop doing the work. I know it was done properly. All in all, a happy ending.
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Your "top-less" cruzn buddy, Denise

www.loboys.com

Yep, that certainly was after a little persausion the standup thing to do.

Now if that was a restored antique ride at some amusement park and something broke and some kids got the shit scared out of them it would be different....correct?
Major investigation, lots of media nosing around and no payoff to be quiet.

The whole scene with Heidt makes me sick. From his original stand, then the fishies and then the ending. Money talks, Joe Average takes it in the butt; just another day in American business.

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Carl
Zero Rust Distributor
Body Shop and Welding Supplies

When I had my well drilled, I was lucky enough to be here.
The guy went down 22', and hit nice gravel & lots of water.
I told him to pull up, you're done.
He started bailing as fast as he could, trying to show me I would run out of water if he didn't go deeper.
He couldn't bail it dry.
So he turned to me and said, "you need to go deeper, I'm a born again, I wouldn't screw you!"
I told him I didn't trust him before, now I REALLY don't trust him! hehe
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Charlie

OK WHO IS LITE IN THE COLLECTION PLATE ?

Naaaaaaah.. I am a lock and load guy... and as Ruff Rider Teddy once said, "saddle up and ride to the sound of the guns.....I right behind you" Did that quote turn out right? LOL!

I personally like fish. Broiled tuna, grilled salmon or swordfish and especially that homeboy favorite....fried catfish! Anybody got a beer?
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Steve Jack
Marketing Technologies Limited,LLC
ConceptOne Brackets and Pulleys

Hmmmm....I thought that was just Democratic interns!!
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Daryle "It's what we learn after we think we know it all that really counts!"

AHHH HAAAA. Good one Daryle.

It's totally irrelevent, but, I agree. Don't use religous convictions for advertisment.
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Lower Susquehanna Valley Chapter of DSRA
DSRA, NSRA, NSMA, KKOA, GAA, FOM, BDA, NRA, WHC, OBX,

Hey! Anyone want to smoke one of Bill Clintons leftover cigars???
The wife found the "fish" on the back of everyones cars here in Texas a bit of blatant advertisement so she found a fish that had 2 feet on it and Darwin in the middle and wears it proudly..Down here, some of the Bible Thumpers run rampant and advertising anything religious is starting to get some peoples backs up...It has nothing to do with the product in this case even tho some think an isolated case is proof that all MII based designs are faulty. Like it was said, there could be more than a few reasons for the failure...But it would take a good metallurgist to find out why. In the meantime, if I could afford a Heidts front end and had the need for one, I wouldn't hesitate to pick up the phone and order one. I would however, not count on my welding capabilities and would have it professionally installed. Heidts is not the only one to offer that particular design..Just look thru the pages in SR or others to see that many offer their front ends in "kit" form..Would this not be even worse where you have to make things fit just so then weld it? I think my only bone of contention is that the original design had the lower control arm for a good reason. All it takes is 2 more brackets welded on. Cleaner looking than split wishbones!
I believe Gary's letter and his comments..At least he's being very forthcoming with the accusations. I feel the fish doesn't need to be in an ad also since it does indicate a religious theme that doesn't belong. But he paid for a full page color ad so guess he can put whatever he want on it.
Ed, ya don't need a flak jacket! Just develope the "HAMB" skin..LOL or scales, depending on which end of this animal ya'll are looking at!!!! FredP
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Fred P.

Nice to know Gary is doing right by Cos.
A piece of steel can have a flaw in it, causing it to fail.
It doesn't have to be the install or the mfg.
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Charlie

Nice to know Gary is doing right by Cos.
A piece of steel can have a flaw in it, causing it to fail.
It doesn't have to be the install or the mfg.
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Charlie

If you are serious about that offer Ill take you up on it.
Good timing also.

Im now up on a wireless link with full T1 speed both directions. An old ham radio friend owns the wireless company and needed to get coverage into an area he wants to expand into. I have a 180' tower on the peak of the ridge.
He gets his link, I get free service plus a monthly check.

So that has prompted me to start work on a server that will be dedicated to technical info, how-to's, photos, etc.
Im actively looking for "The Good Stuff".



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Carl
Zero Rust Distributor
Body Shop and Welding Supplies

I can't get over how judgemental you guys are!
Cosmo's car is an unfinished daily driver, which gets driven year round in Ohio. You know it snows there, right?
How often do you need to inspect your 2 year old pickup for frame cracks?
As for the install, spring rates, bottoming etc, we don't know any of that.
Just think it's out of line to call a guys car a POS just 'cause it ain't up to someone elses standards.
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Charlie

Very well said.

I agree. Seems like the amount of rust than normally forms on a production car or truck undercarriage after a couple of winters of driving. Looks like a driver and not a trailer queen.

I think we need to really be carefull not to come to wrong conclusions here. It's prudent to be aware, but not to react yet other than inspecting our own cars for such a pending diasaster.

I built my 32 roadster with the Heidts and thoroghly inspected the entire front end including taking to a friend of mine over at the AV shop for complete magnaflux and Xray prior to hitting the pavement. The opinion was that it was a quality constructed piece. But, my roadster does not weigh over 2400lbs. But I do/did stress it alot by driving the bajuice out of it.

Approaching it from an engineering point I would want someone from Heidts to do a "failure analysis" on the unit. We do NOT know the kind of driving or abuse this front end might have been exposed to prior to failure. Plus, there are a pot full of these things out there and they have been out there for a long time and I have never heard of this problem before. Usually when there is an inherent design issue, the word gets around pretty fast. This is the single most important point.....I think this is a low failure rated item.

Agreed, we should watch and listen on this, but it's nothing I am worried about and would go out and buy one tomorrow if I needed it. I see far more abominations on our cars today that could contribute to far more likely disasters that might harm us or others (such as no seat belts, flimsy or inadequate throttle springs, dangerous fuel filters, bald tires, etc).

Interesting stuff tho........
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Steve Jack
Marketing Technologies Limited,LLC
ConceptOne Brackets and Pulleys

My bet is the lack of strut rods had everything to do with the failure. Also the road conditions he describes added to the problem. Just my opinion.
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The "New" and Unimproved edcroozer... Charter D.S.R.A. member

I am not an engineer and therefore don't feel qualified to comment on the situation.I also am not a welder and therefore I always hire a qualified person to do the cross member installations on my cars.However,I have used Heidt's crossmembers in a dozen or so cars with absolutely no problems.I usually don't drive the cars many miles personally as I sell one to support the next but several of them are owned by guys I've stayed in contact with who have owned them for several years driving them hundreds of thousands of miles with no problems.A good friend of mine has a 38 Ford Coupe that I did many years ago with nearly 100K miles on it with no problems.As I said,I'm not qualified to judge,but it seems with thousands if not hundreds of thousands of these out there with the same design,that we would not have seen a significant number of failures prior to this.Glad nobody was hurt and I will take a close look at that area of the car on a more frequent basis to be sure! See Ya!!
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Daryle "It's what we learn after we think we know it all that really counts!"

I have also been following this thread over at the HAMB. I have read and seen everything that has been posted over there, here and on SRS. First of all, I do not understand most of it, so I can not comment on it's structure or failure, BUT I read it to learn. What I CAN contribute is a females point of view. I do understand that his soon to be ex-wife is the daily driver, not him. Is it possible that she is keep something from him such as she hit something in the road, chunk of ashpalt, curb etc, and that, or something similar, could have contributed to something like this happening?
In my opinion she does need to take alittle responsiblity. What is she doing while changing the oil? If she's under there doing it herself, isn't she checking things over? If she takes it to one of those quicky oil changes places, like I do every 3,000 miles, even if I'm out of town, does she just sit in the car and listen to the radio? I certainly don't. While they are changing my oil I'm in the pit with them pulling on things, pushing on things and generally going over EVERY square inch with my hands and eyes. Takes about 15 minutes, no big deal. I LIKE looking under there. I do not have a lift at my place (wish I did) so I take every opportunity I can, to do what I can under my car when it's at a shop for repairs that I can't do myself. I also ask the NSRA safety inspection team to look over my rod at least once a year. A second set of eyes is always a plus. Maybe I'm alittle different (no comments from the peanut gallery) but I don't think you can ever be too safe. I guess I just have a habit of looking at my rods, engine compartment, underneath, etc, all the time. I have caught many a broken items this way. Cracked alternator bracket FIVE times this summer alone!!

I personally know Gary to be a nice guy and a great businessman. I also know Bill, Mike and Chad at the Roadster Shop and also know them to be great guys and business people. I'm sure Bill called Gary and gave him his honest opinion of how and why it happened. I believe Gary will do the right thing for everyone involved. Well enough of my ramblings, just wanted to add a viewpoint from a female on the subject. Have a good day


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Your "top-less" cruzn buddy, Denise

Lipstick Run Survivor

http://www.geocities.com/lipstickrun/
www.loboys.com

I NEED MY EDIT BUTTON!!! Second sentance, suppose to read RRT, not SRS. LOL AND, "In my opinion" was suppose to be a new paragraph. Hard to read when everything runs together. :)
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Your "top-less" cruzn buddy, Denise

Lipstick Run Survivor

http://www.geocities.com/lipstickrun/
www.loboys.com

I wondered some years ago, when the MII front end came out and was so successful until the lower control arm to the frame was removed. All braking and vertical loads twisted around the crossmember but since herky metal was used for the crossmember of the MII front, I kinda thought it would survive. The factory put the control arm there for a reason just as Ol Henry did with all of his cars with straight axels. The wishbone was there for a good reason and hot rodders kept them even in a split configuration. And you can add hairpins and 4 bars to that also. Sure a lot of manufacturers used the upper and lower arms with no control arm but have ya'll noticed all of the "meat" placed in the front end for strength!! Car weight in the front went WAY up but it worked. Every rodders instincts tell him or her that weight is not good and the lighter the better. The old Corvair front ends were the choice back then but broke easily due to the vehicles usually being too heavy and if ya added disc brakes, look out! I'm sure most rodders remember that old front end! Then the MII is discovered and was a great improvement but why did the guys start taking the control arm off when the front end was stuffed under a fendered car and couldn't be seen unless ya looked close. A good sized disc brake system could be used on these fronts because of the control arm. The designers were right after all! When it comes to front ends and safety, think before cutting......that illustrated Heidts front end could have really cost someone their life and cost Heidts no end of lawsuits that would put them on the long list of extinct American rod part manufacturers. Overlooking safety, even for a short period of time, on anything is not what the hobby/sport is about! FredP
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Fred P.