I have a new crate engine and was wondering about synthetic oils. Do you brake it in with the regular oil and then change to synthetics or can you start with synthetics and carry on. Chuck

Use the reccomended oil by the manufacturer until broken in. After the break in period use synthetic.
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The "New" and Unimproved edcroozer... Charter D.S.R.A. member

If you do a search of the archives, you'll find a whole boat load of lubricant knowledge. This topic's been around the block a dozen times.

I'll ditto Ed. The concensous on this site has been synthetic.
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MrWillys aka HRB
Member: Dipstick Street Rod Association
Paint don't make 'em any faster!

If you go to my technical links site at www.inccn.net/jackstandslinks.htm and pruise thru the mess....you will find a lot of articles on synthetics and oil issues, including break-in information.

It's interesting to me that new Corvettes come with synthetic right out of the box, and we, including myself, can't get by break-in without regular based oils. I am going to have to do my usual scientific junket on that one to see what's at the bottom to this story and why.

But not now.....toooooo much going on!
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Steve Jack
Engineering & Marketing Technologies
ConceptOne Brackets and Pulleys

Why would anyone want to use synthetic oil in the first place????????? Here are some reasons why not to use it
1. It cost way too much
2. It doesnt do anymore than say Castrol 10w40
3. Who wants to run their engine 8 thousand miles to recieve any use from the added cost thats what you have to do
3. If ran it that long you get sludge build up, and you dont want that
4. I have seen hundreds of cars with over 200 thousand miles on them that use REGULAR oil and are still running strong and their owners say they dont have to add oil between changes,, what more could you ask for?????????
5. All the engines I have seen with over 100 thousand mile using synthetic oil has had build up in the valve covers and the owners say they have to add oil between changes
6. Oil should be changed well BEFORE it gets black
7. This is from experience of several years as an automotive tech. and Auto repair business owner.
8. Synthetics in the rear axle housing and standard trans. is the way to go without a doubt but the engine..............not
9. If Jesus told me to use it I would but until I hear it from him I am using Castol 10w something unsynthetic
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she didnt accidentally get good in bed

I disagree with just about everything you said.

Synthetic oil's lubricating capabilities far exceed those of fossil oil in every respect. They hold together much better at high temperatures and won't turn to glue at low temperatures like fossil oil. I wouldn't run an engine on anything else.

I especially take issue with your comments about sludge. When we pulled the valve covers on our 100,000+ mile suburban it was as clean as a whistle and it has been running synthetic for all but the first 500 miles of it's life.

Synthetics were developed during WWII to help solve lubrication problems in high performance aircraft engines and ever since it has been used in jet engines where fossil oil couldn't hold up, even if it wanted to.

Problems with automotive engines occur only when switching to a synthetic after thousands of miles of operation on fossil oils. Synthetics will find there way through old gaskets where fossil oils won't. This happens because they flow much better than fossil oil. If you’re seeing engines with loads of sludge then it was there before the fossil oil was introduced to the engine, not caused by it.

Go a head and run fossil oil if you want, but a synthetic will out perform it at every turn.

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Later...

Bill....I shake your hand.
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The "New" and Unimproved edcroozer... Charter D.S.R.A. member

Steve are the Vette motors run in before they are installed???? I am still on the fence with synthetic,s on one hand i have seen engine oil temp go down in every thing it has been installed in.I also have seen how clean the motor looks after 150k with synthetic,s.But have also seen the how clean a fossil oil motor looks with good service .About the same. The problem i have found with synthetic is it seems to find any little place to leak(is this just me?) I also find i come up with better leak down #(not comp test ..leak down test..cyl sealing) on a fossil oil motor after time.BUT and this is a biggy. The bearings in a synthetic motor cant be beat.. its just unreal how good they look. Gear boxes and rear ends you have to have your head in the sand if your not using it.It used to drop 60-90 degrees in rearend temp in the race car with synthetic.(which made the diff of not running a heavy rearend cooler) Shifting a synthetic oil gear box there is no compararing. Still not so sure on the motor yet. I still use the old castrol myself or kendall(got to say that they sponcered me for years and are great people) I just like a good ring seal and think the sythetic dont do it for me. hey maybe i am nuts...but it works. Ok go easy i cant wear the nomex today its over 80 here today and i am gettin old. LOL MIKE.....
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Hot rod consultant for Kand K
engineer that dont drive the train
Driver of unpainted rods.

You my friend are 100 percent right, just one more reason they make strawberry and vanilla ice cream, everybody dont want the same thing especially if it cost 2 to 3 timea as much. Dont get me wrong I think synthetic oil is the best thing going, I just am not going to pay all that extra for something I dont need. Case closed for me
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she didnt accidentally get good in bed

I am NOT known to embrace new ideas or new technology but I run Mobile 1 in my 32. I understand that it costs more. I do know that GM took the sandwich type oil coolers off Corvettes when they went to Mobile 1. Must cool better (no this is not going to be a cooling post) . I also had a digital tach ...Snap on... hooked to the car and took RPM readings with the car warmed up and ready to go. Changed the oil to Mobile 1 and the RPMS went up 150 to 180 RPMS. Had to readjust the idle on the 32. My engine is a 345 HP 350 ZZZ crate engine. It had 5000 miles on it when I changed it over. DISCLAIMER......... I do not sell oil, own stock in any oil companies and the engine only has 50,000 miles on it so long term results have not yet been determined. YOUR RESULTS AND EXPERIECES MAY VARY.
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Same Wife, Same DEUCE Roadster, Same Job for over 20 years. Must be in a rut. AIN'T LIFE GRAND.....

Randy you are headed down the right path, the long term results will be far better than you can imagine, if it wasnt for Mobil One we would never have made it to outer space. I change mine when the dip stick starts to get a little cloudy, in other words when you pull the dip stick out and you cant see the dip stick through the oil you have ran it too long in my opinion. We have a 1/4 mile circle track here close to my house and I have several friends that race. When you have to make a gear change after 20 or so laps you would have to use gloves and shop rags to touch the quick change gears so I talked one of them in to trying synthetic in the quick change rear end and after 50 laps you could change the gear without getting burned. I dont know about any other brand but I do know about Mobil One
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she didnt accidentally get good in bed

Thanks for the info Clarence...... I have it in the 9" rear end of the Deuce also. Ran a Frankland Quickie in a dirt car I worked on years ago and had the same results as yours. I change the oil every 3000 miles, filter included on the 32 engine. I know it costs a few bucks more and I may be over servicing the engine but like you told a fellow about two favors of ice cream. It's my car and my money. Cheap insurance. It makes me feel better. There is almost always two or more ways to do something and people should realize it. I am exactly the opposite way on oil for the other street rod. On my 40 Ford with a 57 283........ straight 30W is all it gets. The 283 has never been redone since it left the GM factory in 1957 and it suffers from the rope rear main seal, dried up valve stem seals and all the other sealing problems associated with Small Block Chevrolets of that era. I converted it to PCV and it helps some. It's pooey. Runs too good to rebuild but a quart of oil every 700 - 900 miles is required. Not good enough of a engine to convert over to synthetic. It uses and leaks oil. Not a candidate for the good stuff. DEUCE
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Same Wife, Same DEUCE Roadster, Same Job for over 20 years. Must be in a rut. AIN'T LIFE GRAND.....

seems to me like not using the stuff becuase it's expensive shouldnt be much of a reason, arent street rods in general pretty damn expensive, so whats $50 in oil if the engine cost you $10 grand?

10 GRAND?? Holy fins batman, my whole car doesn't cost that much. (yet).

phil
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One man's treasure is another man's trash.

10 Grand? Boy am I embarrassed. I lost count at 10.
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The "New" and Unimproved edcroozer... Charter D.S.R.A. member

and how much do you spend in oil, very small compaired to the engine. point made?

I understand your point but the engine in the 40 is only worth about 3 or 4 synthetic oil changes. Synthetic leaks at a much higher rate than 30W so as much as I drive it..... the $$ cost of the good stuff would soon be larger than the value of the whole darn 40. Have a new chassis with TCI IFS, 9" and small block Chevrolet with a 700R about ready to go under the coupe. It's so pooey that it is too much fun to take apart. So I procrastinate and just add oil and enjoy.
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Same Wife, Same DEUCE Roadster, Same Job for over 20 years. Must be in a rut. AIN'T LIFE GRAND.....

Brian, No schooling needed here. Oil is the insurance.
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The "New" and Unimproved edcroozer... Charter D.S.R.A. member

I use Synthectic in my truck and i use Amsoil in my motor home and i think iam going to put Amsoil in thr rear end the oil has made a difference and i can tell that....Johny
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A GOODGUYS REP

sounds good,
Ed that rod is sharp looking :)

Thanks Brian. Keep the faith, your ride is coming.
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The "New" and Unimproved edcroozer... Charter D.S.R.A. member

I use Mobile One in the engine of the 32.
I have Amsoil synthetic in the rear end of my 32.
Does Mobil one have a rear end synthetic oil?
Amsoil has a automatic transmission fluid but I have been to conservative to try it. Any one have good or negative experience with the Amsoil transmission fluid?
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Same Wife, Same DEUCE Roadster, Same Job for over 20 years. Must be in a rut. AIN'T LIFE GRAND.....

Hi Randy, Yes mobil does have a synthetic gear lube. iI think it is 85-140, anyway, that is what i am using in the vega box and the rear diff. of the hot rod. I am thinking about putting it in the Muncie, but for some reason Tommy Pound says I should only use the G.M. gear lube in there. I think the mobil would be better though.From all I have read it might shift smoother and the bearings might last longer with the synthetic. Later..........Dale
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dalecarbuff

Randy, Amsiol has a lubricant for just about anything, I used to work at a shop that sold that stuff, turned me slap against it as far as the engine oil goes. the other lubes they have are great, but for me I like Mobil One engine oil changed every 3 thousand mile I might add, I change it every 1500 in the FatBoy prolly over kill but I hate dirty oil
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she didnt accidentally get good in bed

WW11 Hu????? that was back in time when they had parffin based oil I do believe. In an everyday car there is no need for synthetic oil when you can get 200k out of oil that cost half as much
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she didnt accidentally get good in bed

I've got 20,000 on my 350 now using fossil.I Change it every 2500 miles or if I know I've run extremely hot in a parade or something. I'm curious to know the advantages of running synthetic at high temps for hours of driving, i.e.: 190-215 Deg. F. for 3-6hours. Will it disepate heat better? What happens to the oil if it's run at much lower temps, because of a low temp thermostat (160 lets say).
Because of my high gear ratio, my oil pres. probably runs lower than most while freeway cruising. Will synthetic help in that respect?
What's the best procedure for a changeover if I decide to do it?
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Wear your seatbelt

When changing certain types of refrigerants in commercial units we have specific procedures for changeover from mineral to synthetic lubricants, that has prompted my procedure question.
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Wear your seatbelt

Synthetic runs cooler and lasts longer and is only as good as your engine. If your engine is leak free and uses no oil then it is for you. If you have a "user" or a "leaker" It will get expensive. There is no proceedure for changing over...Just normal oil change with a quality filter. I use the Delco.
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The "New" and Unimproved edcroozer... Charter D.S.R.A. member

Our lab tests on synthetic oils at Timken showed significantly less wear. We use synthetics in all our vehicles...Mobile 1. I don't own stock either.

Ed, you just jogged my memory when you said filter. I never feel comfortable buying one. I seem to shop by brand and I know that's not the best way. Looking for the one that will block out the smallest micron particle may be too restrictive. So what do you do?
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Dick Z

I only use Delco oil filters. From the reading of all the tests I have seen, The Delco comes through with flying colors. Someone on this roundtable posted a link to those tests...It was impressive. I have cracked open a few of these filters after use, They are well made and from the looks of it...trapped alot of contaminants. I will do 2 filter changes before I drain the synthetic. It always looks pretty clean when I drain it. I have gone as far as 7500 miles before draining. I`m told you can go longer.
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The "New" and Unimproved edcroozer... Charter D.S.R.A. member

EDCROOZER....... GM has a extra special filter for SBC's. I saw it in the performance catalog. I tried it and like it. My dealer keeps them in stock now. The filter catches even smaller stuff than 35 regular. Have you seen it? I know the mrs. goes there every day. DEUCE
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Same Wife, Same DEUCE Roadster, Same Job for over 20 years. Must be in a rut. AIN'T LIFE GRAND.....

I am awaiting a case as we speak.
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The "New" and Unimproved edcroozer... Charter D.S.R.A. member

I agree that synthetics are far superior to the conventional wisdom. Here is a good link http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html for more info.

I use only the NAPA lines of filters made by WIX. They are as good as any and are on sale alot. I can do an synthetic oil change for less than 25 bucks. Here is a site full of filter information. You be the judge. Go to http://www.dorianyeager.com/oilfilterstudy1.html for more information.

Back to oil. Both synthetic and conventional engine oils are typically made of a base oil (80%) and additives (20%). A conventional mineral base oil is produced through normal crude refining processes. By contrast, most synthetic base oils are produced from ethylene, an extract of both natural gas and crude oil. The ethylene is chemically transformed into low-molecular-weight hydrocarbons called alphaolefins. These molecules are then polymerized (i.e., linked together) to form the heavier polyalphaolefins that constitute the synthetic base oil.

These carefully selected molecules impart special properties to synthetic oils that offer significant advantages over conventional oils. Synthetic engine oils are available as full synthetics or as mixtures of synthetic and mineral base oils.


The following table lists the key advantages of synthetic engine oils over conventional oils:




SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL ADVANTAGES VS MINERAL-BASE OILS


FEATURES
ADVANTAGES

Higher purity
Fewer undesirable components to impair oil performance, form deposits and accelerate engine wear

Lower volatility
Lower oil consumption; minimal sludge/deposit formation; lower engine emissions

Lower pour point
Faster lubricant flow to critical engine parts at cold start-up; reduced energy consumption at cold-cranking

Higher viscosity index
Stable viscosity for assured lubrication over wide temperature range

Superior thermal and oxidation stability
Stable viscosity for assured lubrication at extreme high temperatures; lower deposit-forming tendency; cleaner engine emissions

Excellent film strength and adherence to metal surfaces
Adheres strongly to metal surfaces at high temperatures and pressures for dependable protection in severe operating environments

Superior lubricity (i.e,. friction characteristics)
Cooler operation and, in some cases, improved fuel economy


Although the superior oxidative and thermal stability of synthetic engine oil can extend oil life, auto-makers do not distinguish between synthetic or synthetic blend oils and conventional oils in their oil change recommendations. Therefore, extending the oil change interval beyond that recommended by the auto-maker could void the warranty. Also, contaminants such as road debris, acids and water tend to build up regardless of the oil composition; the best way to remove these contaminants is through frequent oil changes.

Just my usual tooooooooo much information post.




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Steve Jack
Engineering & Marketing Technologies
ConceptOne Brackets and Pulleys

......and THAT, boys and girls is how we got to the moon...


Just kidding Steve! You obviously know your stuff. Thanks.
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Wear your seatbelt

And Steve put us there!....lol
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The "New" and Unimproved edcroozer... Charter D.S.R.A. member

Actually Ed, interesting point.... it was the first man on the moon, Neil Armstrong, A Purdue University Aerospace Engineering grad, that inspired me through engineering school. He went to the moon in 69 and I went to Purdue in 69 as a freshman. In the engineering building when you entered in the main foyer, there was this two story picture of Neil standing on the moon with the earth in the black background, a US flag in one hand and a Purdue "Boilermaker" flag in the other. The moonlander was apparent in his all gold reflected visor...just an awesome and inspiring picture. So, I wanted to go to!

An interesting tidbit about the Purdue flag. He took the flag up agreeing to bring it back and with the permission of NASA. He agreed and purportedly brought it back for his keeping. But wait. There was a giggle in the room when asked in 69 about why he didn't leave it. He and his copilot laffed and said that NASA would not allow us to litter up the moonscape with banners. It was purported that the looks and giggles led official to believe that he sneeked another flag. He denied that until 1995 when at a Purdue Engineering Forum he annouced with pictures that the Purdue Boilermaker Banner was the first to fly on the moon and is still standing to this day. The place went nuts with applause. His comments were...."what are they going to do to me...make me go back and get it?"

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Steve Jack
Engineering & Marketing Technologies
ConceptOne Brackets and Pulleys

As always you people amase me with your knowledge and thanks I will check the sites you posted. We run synthetic in all our heavy equipment and have had better service and less down time. Chuck

Steve, good job, but... you forgot:

Great for your dog's coat! (Sorry Murph)
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MrWillys aka HRB
Member: Dipstick Street Rod Association
Paint don't make 'em any faster!

Amen!
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Later...