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a list of differential widths
by Rochie
Posted: 10/08/2002 15:41 EST

A while back someone posted a site that had a full list of rear end widths. Anybody remember??? I've searched the archives with no luck.
Thanks for the help, Rochie

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RE: a list of differential widths
by hotrodladycrusr
Posted: 10/08/2002 16:19 EST

This is a perfect example of why the post title is so important. I believe we have THE BEST archival system on the internet regarding message boards. It works and is easy to use as long as the post title matches the topic.
--
Your "top-less" cruzn buddy, Denise

Lipstick Run Survivor

http://www.geocities.com/lipstickrun/
www.loboys.com

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RE: a list of differential widths
by rumrumm
Posted: 10/08/2002 17:01 EST

enjenjo has a listing of the widths of 9-inch Ford rear ends but I cannot find it in my bookmarks. Anybody??
--
Lynn
'32 3W

If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?

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RE: a list of differential widths
by MikeC
Posted: 10/08/2002 18:01 EST

Here are my lists, Rochie;

Year & Model Axle Length Notes
1965-1966 Mustang 57.25 inches
1967-1970 Mustang 59.25 inches
1971-1973 Mustang 61.25 inches
1977-1981 Versailles 58.50 inches
1967-1973 Mustang, Torino, Ranchero, Fairlane 59.25 inches to
61.25 inches
1957-1959 Ranchero and station wagon 57.25 inches
1966-1977 Bronco 58 inches
1977-1981 Granada/Versailles 58 inches
1967-1971 Comet, Cougar, Mustang, Fairlane 59.25 inches
1971-1973 Mustang 61.25 inches
1964 Falcon 58 inches
1967 Cougar 60 inches
1967 Fairlane 63.50 inches coil springs
1972 Ford Van 3/4 ton 68 inches
1973-1986 Ford Van 3/4 ton 65.25 inches
1957-1959 Ranchero and station wagon
57.25 inches
narrowest 9" housing
1966-1977 Bronco 58 inches 5-on-5 1/2 inch diameter bolt circle
1967-1973 Torinos, Rancheros, Fairlanes 59.25 inches or
61.25 inches
1967-1971 Comets, Cougars, Fairlanes 59.25 inches
1975 Mustang II 8" 57.00 inches
1974 Maverick 8" 56.50 inches


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RE: a list of differential widths
by 58 Yeoman
Posted: 10/08/2002 18:02 EST

Try these for a start...

http://hiqties.hypermart.net/9inch.html

http://www.ammotorsports.com/Ford9InchRear.htm

http://www.dfwmotorsport.com/Fairlane/9inchrearends.htm
--
phil


It's not a NOMAD, it's a Yeoman!
Not an engineer, but I DO drive a train.

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RE: a list of differential widths
by 286merc
Posted: 10/08/2002 18:39 EST

That HI Q Ties list is an excellent start. For a complete list you need a Hollanders. It can get confusing but its great for ID'ing those that dont show on the list.
My last 3 9" were not listed and Hollanders turned out to have it all, including axle lengths and spline counts.

Also covers Mopar, GM, etc.

Before waking up, I kept pestering Fat Cat for info.

--
Carl
Zero Rust Distributor
Body Shop and Welding Supplies

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RE: a list of differential widths
by HB32
Posted: 10/08/2002 19:15 EST

Just sold a 80 Granada 9 inch a couple of weeks ago to a guy in Snohomish, it measured in a 57 1/2 inches axle flange to axle flange. This is the best that Ford offers and are really hard to come by. Roger

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RE: a list of differential widths
by rumrumm
Posted: 10/09/2002 17:10 EST

Thanks for those addies, Phil.
--
Lynn
'32 3W

If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?

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RE: a list of differential widths
by LOFAT48
Posted: 10/08/2002 19:39 EST

What's shakin Rochie? There was a list on the other site. Anything in particular you're looking for? Ciao, Marty
--
LOFAT48


ROCK ON

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RE: a list of differential widths
by Rochie
Posted: 10/09/2002 14:09 EST

Marty, I saw a list, I thought it was here, and I meant to print it for my stash of tech stuff, but I can't find the thing now. There's a couple of things I will be involved with over the winter so I'm going "LUGGY" gathering stuff
Rochie

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RE: a list of differential widths
by canuk
Posted: 10/09/2002 15:42 EST

hi rochie. try dfwmotorsports.com good luck. i have a couple lists, if this sight does not work out i can scan my lists and e-mail them to you.
--
canuk

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RE: a list of differential widths
by Prixmo 1
Posted: 10/09/2002 16:41 EST

I thought the General made rear ends too? All I see is stuff for Ford 9". OK all you Bow Tie guys, Lets hear it.
--
If you want it yesterday, then call me tommorow and I will have it ready today.

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RE: a list of differential widths
by beatnik
Posted: 10/09/2002 16:54 EST

Don't forget the Mopar 8-3/4 and Dana 60's as well.

I do see a lot of 10 bolts in rods, someone has to have those widths.
--
Be different but be yourself.

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RE: a list of differential widths
by purplepickup
Posted: 10/09/2002 18:03 EST

Here's a pretty good GM rear axle site if you need one. http://www.novaresource.com/
--
*******
George

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RE: a list of differential widths
by MikeC
Posted: 10/09/2002 18:04 EST

I found the rest of my gathered info on my computer tonight.
This is quite long and has additional info but I put everything together.

Ford - Chevelle - Dodge Rear End Info

I borrowed a lot of this info from sites on the web. Thanks to all who contributed. If I get the time I will try to pull all of this info together in an organized format. Anyway, if you have corrections or comments let me know and I will try to get it updated. The web really needs one place to find all this info.
FORD -
Year & Model Axle Length Notes
1965-1966 Mustang 57.25 inches
1967-1970 Mustang 59.25 inches
1971-1973 Mustang 61.25 inches
1977-1981 Versailles 58.50 inches
1967-1973 Mustang, Torino, Ranchero, Fairlane 59.25 inches to
61.25 inches
1957-1959 Ranchero and station wagon 57.25 inches
1966-1977 Bronco 58 inches
1977-1981 Granada/Versailles 58 inches
1967-1971 Comet, Cougar, Mustang, Fairlane 59.25 inches
1971-1973 Mustang 61.25 inches
1964 Falcon 58 inches
1967 Cougar 60 inches
1967 Fairlane 63.50 inches coil springs
1972 Ford Van 3/4 ton 68 inches
1973-1986 Ford Van 3/4 ton 65.25 inches
1957-1959 Ranchero and station wagon
57.25 inches
narrowest 9" housing
1966-1977 Bronco 58 inches 5-on-5 1/2 inch diameter bolt circle
1967-1973 Torinos, Rancheros, Fairlanes 59.25 inches or
61.25 inches
1967-1971 Comets, Cougars, Fairlanes 59.25 inches
1975 Mustang II 8" 57.00 inches
1974 Maverick 8" 56.50 inches

Where To Find The Nine Inch Rear Axle
1967-1973 medium and big block Mustangs and Cougars 1966-1971 Fairlanes, Torinos, Montegos, Comets, and other Ford intermediates with big blocks.
1957-1959 V8 Fords and Mercurys
1977-1981 Lincoln Versailles & Trucks

Types Of Nine Inch Axle Housings
1967-1973 Mustang/Cougar - light duty, thinnest housing material, small axle bearings, 28 and 31 splines.
1957-1968 passenger car and 1/2 ton truck - medium duty, stronger than Mustang type, 28 and 31 splines.
Ranchero/Torino - heavy duty thick wall housing, 3.25 inch diameter axle tubes with flat tops.
1969-1977 Galaxies (coils), Lincolns (coils), and late pickups (leaf)- 3.25 inch diameter all the way to the backing plate, coil housings have upper control arm mount

How To Recognize Nine Inch Housing Centers
1957 - no dimples, flat center band up the center of the rear cover, bottom drain plug.
1958-1959 - two dimples on back of housing, flat center band, some had drain holes.
1960-1967 - two dimples, flat center band, oil level hole in back cover.
1963-1977 Lincoln, LTD, Thunderbirds had 9.375 inch centers, housings were cut away at the gasket surface for ring gear clearance, one curved rib at the front top portion of differential, strong but no gears.

Tip On Shortening Nine Inch Axles
1972 and earlier 31 spline axles have the ability to be shortened.

28 spline axles are tapered and cannot be shortened and re-splined.
1973 and later cars have a 5-on-5 bolt circle and the axles cannot be shortened.
1967-1973 Mustang axles can be identified by wheel flange:
Oval hole = 28 splines.
Two large holes and counter-sunk center = 31 splines.
------------------------------

Housing Identification
57 - no dimples, flat center band up the center of the rear cover, bottom drain plug.
58-59 - two dimples on back of housing, flat center band, some had drain holes.
60-67 - two dimples, flat center band, oil level hole in back cover.
63-77 Lincoln, LTD, Thunderbirds had 9.375 inch centers, housings were cut away at the gasket surface for ring gear clearance, one curved rib at the front top portion of differential, strong but no aftermarket gear sets.

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Strength - There are four usable styles you can find in a junk yard. They range from light duty to extreme duty but in all cases the larger 31 spline axle versions are stronger than the 28 spline version of the same unit.
The 67-73 Mustang type is considered light duty uses both axles.
The 57-68 early passenger car and half-ton pickup rear end is considered a medium duty unit and came in both 28 and 31 spline axles.
The 70-79 Ranchero/Torino are considered a high performance unit again being produced with both 28 and 31 spline axles.
The 69-77 Galaxie/Lincoln and 73-86 half-ton pickup used both size axles and the 31 spline version should be considered the strongest available and can be used for extreme duty applications.

Width: from axle flange to axle flange (X) Width: from alxe tube to axle tube (Y)
1957-59 Ford - 57 1/4"
60-64 Ford 61 1/4"
57-59 Ranchero and SW - 57 1/4"
1964-71 Full sized cars - 61"
1979-81 Lincoln Versailles - 58 1/2"
1972-79 Ford intermediate & Full Size - 63"
70-79 Ranchero/Torino - 63"
57-72 F-100 Pickup - 61 1/4"
73-86 F-150 Pickup/78-86 Bronco - 65-65 1/4"
66-77 Bronco - 58"
1977-86 Ford E-150 - 69 1/4"
77-81 Granada/Versailles - 58 1/2"
67-70 Mustang/Cougar/Fairlane/Comet/Falcon - 59 1/4"*
70-73 Mustang family - 61 1/4"*
69-77 Galaxie/Lincoln - information not given but in any case it will need to be narrowed for use in a street rod.
57-59 Ford/Edsel - 52"
60-64 Ford/Mercury - 54-56"

70-79 Ranchero/Torino - 56"
57-72 F-100 pickup - 57"
73-86 F-150 pickup/78-86 Bronco - 58 3/4"
66-77 Bronco - 46"

67-70 Mustang/Cougar/Fairlane/Comet/Falcon - 52-54"
70-73 Mustang family - 54"

58-60 Thunderbird - 50"
65-66 Mustang - 52"
66-69 Cyclone - 52"
61-67 Thunderbird - 56"


* Denotes a gray area involving some of the earlier parts being found on 70 Model year cars.
Note:After 1970 all axles were the 31 spline style big axles. For 28 spline units the last 4 inchs were machined down for the 28 spline ends. If you shorten the axles more than 4 inches they are big enough to take 31 spline.

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Conversion from 28 Spline to 31 Spline |
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To change the third member to 31 spline, the only parts needed are the differential side gears, they are available from Ford, about $20 apiece. The other part of the conversion is the carrier bearing size. There are two carrier bearing inside bore sizes, and two carrier bearing outside bore sizes. There are three possible combinations, small ID-small OD , large ID-small OD , and large ID-large OD. Factory 31 spline axles came with the last two bearing configurations, but not with the first. On 28 spline carriers, the axle bore on some of them are not large enough to allow the 31 spline axles to pass through. The carriers with the large ID bearings can be bored out to use the 31 spline axles. Not a precision job, just big enough for the axle to pass through, I use a cut off end from a 31 spline axle to check when it's large enough. I takes less than an hour to do both sides, and could be done at a vocational school by a novice. The small ID bearings won't have enough material left for reliability if bored out for 31 spline axles. Also if your housing has the small axle bearings, you will have to have axles custom made, as there are no factory axles with 31 splines,and small axle bearings. Both the large axle bearing, and the extra large axle bearing (some F150 trucks) had 31 spline factory applications. From about 1970 on, the big Fords, Mercury's, and Lincoln's has axles big enough to respline with 31 splines if they are shortened about 4" per side. Both 4 1/2" and 5" bolt patterns are available. If you want to redrill to a 4 3/4" Chevy bolt pattern, use truck axles, as there is more room for the new pattern without hitting the other holes. The drum pilot may have to be turned down, depending on the drum used. The Chevy drums of corresponding size to the ford brakes will fit if the pilot is turned down.
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Converting manual adjusters to later model auto-adjuster brakes |

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Use Wagner #283 shoes, drilled for the self adjuster mechanism, use Wagner self adjuster kit F98370/1, and wagner Combikit F87351. That should supply all the parts you need. These parts are listed for a F100 with 11" by 1 3/4" brakes.
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Pinions |

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Daytona Pinions first available on with 63-64 427 full size cars, and other rare ultra Hi-po cars.
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Ford Carrier ID Tags |

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Below are 2 tables showing the codes from the tag on a ford rearend the code will tell you if it is a 8 or 9 inch and what ratio is supposed to be in the carrier
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[ 8 inch | 9 inch ]

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8 inch ID tag numbers
ID tag Ratio Ring Gear Diameter (in) ID tag Ratio Ring Gear Diameter (in)
WCZ-E 2.80:1 8 WCZ-F 3.00:1 8
WCZ-F1 2.80:1 8 WCZ-G 3.50:1 8
WCZ-V1 2.79:1 8 WCZ-W 3.25:1 8
WDW-Z 3.00:1 8 WDJ-B 2.80:1 8
WDJ-C 3.00:1 8 WDJ-C1 3.00:1 8
WDJ-C2 3.00:1 8 WDW-AB 2.79:1 8
WDY-AA 3.00:1 8 WDY-HH 3.40:1 8
WFL-A 3.00:1 8 WDY-S 3.40:1 8

9 inch ID tag numbers
ID tag Ratio Ring Gear Diameter (in) ID tag Ratio Ring Gear Diameter (in)
WDM-AH 3.25:1 9
WCZ-S 3.50:1 9 WCZ-T 3.50:1 9
WDC-DW 2.75:1 9 WDC-EB 2.75:1 9
WDC-EE 3.00:1 9 WDC-EH 2.75:1 9
WDC-EK 3.00:1 9 WDC-EL 2.50:1 9
WDC-EM 2.50:1 9 WDX-E 2.75:1 9
WCZ-H 3.89:1 9 WCZ-J 4.11:1 9
WCZ-P 3.50:1 9 WCZ-R 3.89:1 9
WFU-E 4.30:1 9 WEB-BF 2.50:1 9
WEB-BK 3.00:1 9 WEB-BM 2.75:1 9
WES-F 3.00:1 9 WES-G 3.25:1 9
WES-H 3.50:1 9 WES-J 3.89:1 9
WES-K 3.50:1 9 WES-M 3.25:1 9
WES-N 3.00:1 9 WES-P 3.25:1 9
WES-R 3.25:1 9 WES-T 2.75:1 9
WES-T1 2.75:1 9 WES-U 3.50:1 9
WES-V 3.00:1 9 WES-Y 3.50:1 9
WES-Z 3.00:1 9 WES-AA 3.00:1 9
WES-AB 3.25:1 9 WES-AC 3.00:1 9
WES-AD 3.25:1 9 WES-AE 3.50:1 9
WES-AG 2.75:1 9 WES-AH 3.00:1 9
WES-AJ 3.25:1 9 WFA-AA 3.00:1 9
WFA-AH 3.00:1 9 WFA-AL 2.75:1 9
WFB-A 3.25:1 9 WFB-C 3.25:1 9
WFB-D 3.00:1 9 WFB-G 2.50:1 9
WFB-K 2.50:1 9 WFD-A 3.50:1 9
WFD-B 3.91:1 9 WFD-C 4.30:1 9
WFD-D 3.91:1 9 WFD-E 4.30:1 9
WFD-F 3.50:1 9 WFD-J 3.25:1 9
WFD-K 3.00:1 9 WFD-L 3.00:1 9
WFD-M 3.25:1 9 WFG-AL 3.00:1 9
WFG-AA 2.75:1 9 WFG-BJ 2.75:1 9
WFV-T 2.75:1 9 WFY-A 2.75:1 9
WFY-K 3.00:1 9 WGB-V 2.75:1 9
WGB-W 3.00:1 9 WGB-AB 2.50:1 9
WGB-AD 2.75:1 9 WGC-A 2.75:1 9
WGC-K 2.50:1 9 WGC-N 2.75:1 9

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Mustang II 4 Lug to 5 Lug Conversion Interchange
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Ok, here is what I know. There is no direct interchange to a 74 to 77 Mustang II 8" rear.

However, the axles in a Maverick are 17/64" shorter on the right side, and 9/64" shorter on the left side. These will probably work.
Better yet, the axles from a 63 to 65 Falcon, Comet, or Fairlane, or a 64 to 66 Mustang with 8" axles are 1/4" too long on the right side, and 3/8" too long on the left side. Measuring several axles I found all of them had enough splines to be shortened this much. And it doesn't have to be done on a lathe, it could be done with a Skil saw and abrasive wheel, then rechamfer the end of the axle.
Also 57 to 59 Ford with a Non-heavy duty axle, everything except police, taxi, wagons, ranchero, and some convertibles, are 9/16" too long on the right, and 3/8" too long on the left. Again the axles can be shortened that much without hurting the spline length. The wheel bearing to flange length on all these are the same, and Maverick drums will work with the Mustang II brakes. All of them use the same wheel bearing, and bearing retainer. The bearing collar on some is different OD, but will interchange on the axles.
I suspect, that Granada and Monarch axles will fit with minor shortening also, they are in the range of the 57 to 59 ford, but I couldn't find a listing in the books I had.

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Ford 8.8 Rearend info

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Ford 8.8 decoding info
Tag Code RxyZZx88xxxx
y L = posi, not L = not posi
R.ZZ Ratio
88 Size (8.8)
x Not important

Ford 8.8" with drums is 28 splines axles. The 8.8" with disks is 31 spline axles and the stronger of the two.

That's what I know on Fords.

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Disclaimer

Keep in mind that Ford made the 9" unit for 29 years and it came in dozens of varieties. One rule of thumb is that if it has disk brakes it also has 28 spline axles. These are the weaker of the two.
-----------------------------------

Chevelle
REAR END HOUSINGS
The rear end housings are based on dimensions that have been gathered from magazine articles, and some of the data that have been published by magazines like Hot Rod may be inaccurate. The figures are correct, and each dimension has been referenced with certain components, like axles and the GM part numbers that specify the exact part used. This might be a reference in which swapping non-GM rearends into GM chassis will provide the required data for a factory-like swap.

*From 1964-67, Chevelle rearends that were used have been manufactured by the Chevrolet Gear and Axle Division, and the housing dimensions measure 56.5 inches, from flange to flange. Total measurements with the drums in place is 60.5 inches. The dimensions are similar to the 1967-69 Camaro/Firebird, and 1968-74 X-cars and clones, except leaf springs were used.
*1968-72 rearend housings measure 58.5 inches from flange to flange, and with the brake drums in place, the total dimensions measure 62.5 inches. The dimensions are similar to the 1970-81 Camaro/Firebird, and 1975-79 X-cars and clones, except leaf springs were used.
Note: internal components have a characteristic that is common to the housing used: 10 bolt pieces fit other 8.125" 10-bolt housings (the rearend used in Chevrolets), and 12-bolt pieces interchange with other 12-bolt housings (not the one from the Chevrolet pickup or Oldsmobile, which has a 12 bolt cover and a 10 bolt gear, which measures 8.3"). This means that a posi carrier will retrofit in place of a standard differential.
Axle shafts are common to the housing used, and due to the usual characteristics like overall length and spline count, the shafts only interchange with the housing that is used. (e.g. 12 bolt shafts fit other 12-bolts, and 10 bolt shafts fit other 10-bolts.)
*Addenum from "Inside '64 -- '72 A-Bodies"
Rear spring mounting pads differed, in which 1964-66 rearends used a flat pad with a hole drilled in the center. 1968-72 rearends have circular spring mounting pads, which are 3/4" higher that the early flat pad.

1967 was a transition year, in which A-cars might have a 1964-66 style rearend, a 1968-72 rearend (which is wider, and commonly available), or a "hybrid" rearend, which will have the 58.5" width, but with the early spring mounting pad and trailing arm brackets.

Rear upper control bushing eyes differ, and the positioning of the bushing eyes will differ. 1968-72 rearend housings will have a 3/8" forward positioning, which is farther that 1964-67 rearends.

1964 was the only year that the rearend bushing are small, and any upper trailing arm (from any GM division) will fit 1964 rearend housings.

------------------
Dodge -

Front and Rear Axle Information: 1/2 ton and Ram charger
There are a variety of axles used in Dodge trucks and Ramchargers. The most common 4x4 1/2 ton rear end is the 9.25 diff. Some trucks came
with 8 3/8 rear ends,, mostly 2wd's. The front diff in 1/2 tons is always a Dana 44, which version is the question. The earlier 72-74 use a dana 44 with 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern, manual hubs and drum brakes, the 75-79 is Dana 44 FBJ full time front axle, no hubs disc brakes and a small 5 on 4.5 identify this axle. The later 80-84 axles are a normal dana 44 design with locking or automatic hubs, disc brakes and 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern. In 1985 Dodge
introduced the CAD(Central Axle Disconnect system) on full size trucks and ramchargers, looking much like a normal dana 44 front end, it is
identifiable by the large cast bulge in the driverside axle tube, no hubs are used, the driver side axle is a 2 piece design with a sliding collar that is moved by a vacuum actuator upon 4wd engagement. The Transfercase for the Cad is a Np-208 with front output shaft synchronization to allow shift on the fly 4wd.
Common Problems with Dana 44 Front Axles:
Starting with the earlier axles, the drum front brakes are the biggest problems, upgrading the axle from the knuckles out to a a disk brake version makes driving alot easier. Next is the 44 FBJ full time axle, all domestic trucks tried the fulltime scenario, yet only dodge came up with a proprietary design.
The axle itself is standard dana 44 stuff, its from the knuckles out that things get interesting. The hub is a pressed bearing design that requires preloading the bearings onto the spindle to maintain lash. The axleshaft is always driven, and therefore the inner ujoints and diff gears are prone to wearing quicker than other designs. I have seen ring gear worn to the point there were no teeth left. The wheel bearings are sealed better than other models, but the need for a puller on disassembly and the somewhat sealed looking exterior means that most units are serviced only when the bearings are completely gone, there is a hole in the rotor exterior where a grease nipple can be found, greasing will extend the life of the bearings greatly. The small bolt pattern is not really conducive to large tires, staying with a tire no larger than 35 will add life to the bearings and make stud breakage less likely. The full time front end can be changed to standard hubs by swapping everthing from the knuckles out with Dana 44 partime axle parts, along with the 85 and up rear axle to get a 5 on5.5 bolt pattern all the way around, if you use Gm 1/2 ton components, the 6 bolt wheel pattern will screw you up, If gm parts are available, use the 3/4 ton parts and change the the rear axle to 8 bolt 9 1/4 axles or install a dana 60 in the rear to really upgrade your truck. A full time truck uses the np-203 which you find will not move when locking hubs are installed until the truck is put into 4-lock. A kit from milemarker will convert the 203 to part time, the truck should never be driven for long periods of time in 4 lock with the front driveshaft removed or with locking hubs
The 80-84 axles are most similar to their gm and ford counterparts. A standard Dana 44 with locking hubs,disc brakes and 5on 5.5 pattern. The weakness here is really the auto locking hubs that were an option in these years. The auto hubs don't like extremely cold weather and require regular service to keep them operational, if an auto hub fails in the back country its not easily repairable or hackable to get going again.
Starting in 1985 the Cad axle was employed and is still used in the newer style rams except the cad is on the passenger side. The problems with this axle
is the weak construction of the driver side tube, the tube is easily warped or bent because of the singular bud welds that hold the axle tubes into the cad housing. A sure sign of tube problems is the oil stain that emanates from the knuckle on the driver side. The axle shaft tends to ride heavily on the bottom portion of the seal, deforming it and allowing oil to leak out. If you wish to fix your axle instead of replacing it there are few ways to do it.
First thing is to measure the the amount of deflection, 1/4 to 1/2 inch of deflection can be pulled out by using the Rancho axle truss kit that has the turnbuckle style ends, jack the truck up by the bumper so the wheels are off the ground, install the truss and tight the turnbuckles up as tightly as possible.
If more than 1/2 deflection is noted, the axle will have to be pulled from the truck and straightened on a bench, the Cad housing can then be radius welded along with the diff housing and then trussed, the axle will be a lot stronger. If you are having problems getting the hub drive gears in the end of the
hub the axle is bent. Standard locking hubs can be added to the Cad axle to make life easier on the inner u joints and the spider gears in the differential since they are always active in a Cad system even though it is considered "part time". A lube leakage fix that can be done is to pull the diff carrier and install a diff side seal in the housing, this blocks the gear oil from the cad splines, just make sure to put plenty of grease on the bearing and sliding collar in the driver side diff tube. Unless welded and trussed maximum tire size is 33".
Dodge 8 3/8 and 9 1/4 rear ends:
The 8 3/8 differential is actually pretty strong for its size and will take a fair bit of abuse with stock tire size. The smallish ring gear and pinion are the
breaking points when it comes to running larger tires. I have the 8 3/8 in my 440 powered d-150 and it is alive and well. the lack of large rear brakes makes it a non contender for a truck with large tires.
Dodge replaced the 8 3/4 in trucks and vans with 9 1/4 rear end sometime in 1971. A generally tough rear end it has some problems when used
with large tires and a v-8 engine. A semi-floating design, the axle shafts themselves support the weight of the vehicle an transmit the drive power, that's the reason the shafts themselves look so beefy when removed from the housing, axleshaft breakage is a rare on the 9 1/4. The weak link seems to be the side or spider gears chipping when large tires(35+) and copious amounts of power are applied, the problem is more prevalent in 4 spd vehicles than automatic equipped trucks, and trucks optioned with limited slip rear ends(sure-grip). So far I have found that the addition of a lock-rite rear end from Powertrax installed in a non LSD rear end makes the 9 1/4 alot tougher. Caution must be used on the 9 1/4 and the 8 3/8 when changing the pinion yoke, both use a crush sleeve for bearing preload an overtightening the pinion nut overloads the pinion bearings. Dodges pinion lock nuts are one time deals, never use a pinion nut twice, they come loose at the most inopportune times.
3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks:
Most 3/4 ton trucks use the Dana 60 rear and the Dana 44 front axles, the 44's being the same as the 1/2ton models with the exception of the 8 bolt wheels. The 3/4 ton version of the 44 went though the same drive axle changes as the 1/2 ton model , meaning that they went from manual hubs to full-time to auto hubs to Cad styles through the last 20 years, read the half ton section for more information on this.
The dana 60 used in the rear of 3/4 ton trucks is one of the best diffs ever made, featuring full floating axles and a 9.75 inch ring gear, it will take big tires and power without a complaint. Some semifloating dana 60's and 9 1/4's have been offered in d-200's, basically a halfton axle with 8 bolts pattern. The 60's come in 30 spline and 35 spline variants, the 35 being the the one to have although the 30's will take alot of abuse also. The brakes are 2.5 inches wide and have adequate stopping power for most applications. The 60's give up some ground clearance when compared to other rear ends but the loss of an inch of clearance is a pretty small price to pay to get a diff that will handle 40" tires and 400 hp, no problem.
The front dana 60, requarded as the holy grail of front diffs was offered in some heavy GVWR 3/4 tons and all 1 tons. Featuring the same measurements as its rear end counterpart, the front 60 is extremely heavy duty front end. It went through the full time saga as well, luckily the hubs were merely eliminated
by means of a splined bolt on cap, which is easily changed to Selectro dual matic hubs. The 60 Changed outboard hub design in late 89 to use the the
spicer style lockout, earlier axles can be changed to this design through the use of later stub axles, and rotor hub. Pre 89 front ends are 30 spline while the the later 60's are 35 spline, on newer rams the 60 has gone Cad, which should be steered clear of when considering axle swaps( beside the fact the pumpkin is on the wrong side). The minimum gear ratio found in all dana 60's is 3.54, the case break is 3.54 to 4.10 standard, gears lower than 4.10 will
require a new carrier. Ford had dana produce the dana 61 which allowed a case break down to 3.23 for emissions reasons, common in ford vans, be careful when junkyard scrounging as most parts are not interchangeable between the 61 and the 60. Dana 70's are used in some single wheel 1 tons
and dual 1 tons, basically the same as the dana 60 its ring gear size is a larger 10.5 which makes super tough, for strength and to find in the junkyard.
Newer dodges are using the dana 80 in diesel and v-10 trucks, this may be the diff to get...



Dana 60 swapping and problems:
The Dana rear end is a bolt in swap for the both the 8 3/8 and the 9 1/4, all rear ends can be had with the same size u joint yokes, vans are good place to
find the 1/2 ton size yoke on a dana 60. The dana pinion stands forward about 2" more than the 9 1/4, the driveshaft will need to be shortened accordingly.
U-bolts and plates for the 9 1/4 can be used on the 60, there are some slight size differences, if you can, aquire all the hardware with the axle. The front
end is a slightly different story, while it is bolt in, differences in truck optioning can make it a little harder. The dana 60 plates and u bolt width is larger than
the 44 front end, the driver side 44 spring top plate can be used on the 60 if the holes are elongated, the passenger side 44 plate is to small to accommodate the 60 spring pad bolt patter. Most 1/2 ton trucks came with a sway bar which the 60 plates typically have no provision for, the options are to remove the sway bar, or to torch off the the swaybar tab on the pass side 44 plate and weld it into position on the 60 plate, and use the 44 drivers side plate on the
60 drivers side. Dodges came with 2 different brake boosters and master cylinders, although there is a physical change, cylinder, booster capacity and proportioning valving is essentially the same on all trucks. Gm style Dana 60's are more prevalent in junkyards(go figure), and can be swapped into a dodge, the steering must be changed to a gm drag link, there is a 1.5" difference in spring pad dimension which creates some handling quirks at higher
speeds and tends the twist the leaf springs limiting travel and affecting ride, the drivers side spring pad could be moved 3/4 inch inboard to alleviate this some what but its still a hack job. The front driveshaft will need to be shortened again to accommodate the 60, although if a large lift is installed the shaft ends up being the right size. 3/4 ton 44 front ends can use 15,16 and 16.5 inch wheels, on the 60 the large caliper prohibits the use of 15 inch wheels,
they will fit over the rear 60 drums, 16" rims are a tight fit, grinding of the caliper and bracket along with the use of deep offset wheels.
The weight difference between a 44 and a 60 front end is huge, judging by the way my back felt after the last swap I did, I would say the 44 frontend was about 300 lbs while the 60 must have been in the 500-575 range. I could not lift the whole 60 at one time only each end individually. The addition of a front dana 60 will result in about an 1 1/2 of lift because of the tall spring pad and axle tube diameter. The Drag link is the same on all trucks and will bolt into the 60 arm, the steering stabilizer will require larger u bolts on the axle bracket to fit the 60 tube.
On earlier 60 front ends, the selectro hub has some problems when exposed to large amounts of power, the hub likes to internally tear apart at the snap ring grooves, mainly in part to the axle having to move when the wheels are turned, to minimize this problem, keep the steering limiter bolts properly adjusted, when assembling the hub turn the wheel all the way and see if you can still get the outboard snap ring on, if you cant turn the limiters in. keep in
mind that the axle may be limited in its outboard movement by the torrington bearing in the spindle not being in deep enough into the cavity, also elimination
of the hub body to rotor hub gasket will give you a little more leeway to get the snapring onto the axleshaft, use a thin film of silicone to seal the hub body.
Old spindles typically have worn bearing surfaces which makes for sloppy steering and improper bearing loading, new spindles are worth their weight in gold from Dodge, the answer is to have a machine shop chrome or spray weld the spindle surface and then turn them back to size, its a relatively cheap fix compared to new spindles. All 60's and some 44's are prone to having worn pinion bearing bores, the front ends which tend to sit idle for a long period of time, and see little maintenance if any are usually suffering from this problem. Repairing the cast nodular housing can be expensive, peening the cup cavity with a punch can restore the press fit of the bearing cup, just make sure you have the right shims in place before you drive the cup back in.
Dana front diff covers are usually a heavier thickness than aftermarket covers, if you have to use an aftermarket cover use it on the back, the chrome covers on the front end dont stand up to well and usually end up having a hole punched in them from rocks, chrome is cool but not for front diffs.
The typical dana 60 front end does not use standard ball joints, instead it uses a pin with bearings and cups preloaded with springs and shims by a 4 bolt cover plate. The grease nipples get sheared off when 4x4'ing allowing water and mud to get into the cavity ,the solutions is to use a plug and only install a nipple when greasing, or to use a low profile pin type grease fitting on the knuckle bottom plates. The camber is fixed on this knuckle pivot design, there
was a rumor that a company had made a kit to allow the camber to be adjusted but I have been unable to find it. Expect to find the shims corroded away and the bearings rusted together upon dissassembly of the knuckle caps.
Owners of 60 front axles will notice that the front caliper is not a typical dodge unit, it is a bendix brake design and is used on Chev and ford trucks
as well. The hardware is a bit different than the ususal dodge hardware, the caliper is held in place by a groove in the support bracket top and a spring/ cleat setup in the bottom. The cleat is held in check by a bolt that has a taper at the base of the head, the bolt likes to snap off at the beginning of the taper,
care must be take when removing this bolt and when installing, always lube it with antisieze and torque it to 12 ft lbs. When service is done on 60 front wheel bearings, the locknut for the spindle should be inspected, the nylon in the locknut tends to chip away, if you can install the the locknut and tighten with just the socket and hand the nut needs replacement, also use new wedge locks, for 3 bucks its pretty cheap insurance against losing a front wheel at highway speeds or having the wheel bearing seize due to over pre-loading.
Not all 60's came with a slinger on the pinion to direct oil into the channel cast into the housing, when pinions are tilted upward for driveshaft correction via shims/blocks/pad angle, the upper pinion bearing can be starved of lube, overfilling the diff via the breather tube connection on the top of the housing can alleviate this problem, an extra quart is typically enough to raise the level of the oil to provide some extra splash lube. Lots of head scratching sessions have taken place, due to failure of upper pinion bearings.
When serviceing Dana 60 rear ends, its common for oil to come pouring out of the hub cavity when the axle shaft is removed. To service without removing the lube, take the tire off the side that you are not going to service and lower the axle on that side to tip it down from the side you are working on, the oil will run to the other side, making the oil loss minimal.
More to come......

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RE: a list of differential widths
by LOFAT48
Posted: 10/09/2002 20:51 EST

Wow MikeC great list. I ran an 8 3/4" Dodge in my coupe and have a 10 bolt in my Poncho. And all diffs from the big 3 are bulletproof until you grenade one.
--
LOFAT48


ROCK ON

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RE: a list of differential widths
by exsedan
Posted: 10/09/2002 21:35 EST

Mike, what a great collection of information. When ya get it perfected to your liking, why not store it in the TECH SECTION on this site. If I remember correctly, that is why that section was created. Great job of putting this together. Thanks for sharing it.....jb EXSEDAN

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RE: a list of differential widths
by Fat Cat
Posted: 10/09/2002 21:50 EST

Well one reason it shouldn't be posted in the tech section is that a fair bit of that information on 8 and 9 inch stuff is copied directly from http://www.enjenjo.com(AKA http://hiqties.hypermart.net) and it copyrighted

And as the guy who has spent a considerable amount of time collecting and verifying said info. I would not like to have my works posted without my permission.
--
There's only two things that excite a man, expensive toys and real expensive toys.

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RE: a list of differential widths
by exsedan
Posted: 10/10/2002 14:58 EST

OK then, you post it. It's a great piece and should be in a file that everyone can find and reference with very little searching........jb EXSEDAN

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RE: a list of differential widths
by 286merc
Posted: 10/10/2002 21:26 EST

Its called Bookmarking.

And it is a great site and the Kozinski "twins" do a great job.
--
Carl
Zero Rust Distributor
Body Shop and Welding Supplies

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RE: a list of differential widths
by Fat Cat
Posted: 10/10/2002 22:29 EST

You mean like this?

http://www.enjenjo.com/9inch.html

http://www.enjenjo.com/chevyrear.html

As for the Complete Chevy and Chysler stuff I haven't had a chance to start on a complete list or to verify the info I have. If I can't verify it I am not going to post it.

I am not in the habit of diseminating misinformation. It will come with time.


--
There's only two things that excite a man, expensive toys and real expensive toys.

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RE: a list of differential widths
by RCT66FLEET
Posted: 10/10/2002 02:31 EST

With all due respect to chev1 / JOE , I didn't ask his permission to help ... a buncha GM info is on his site.

http://50chevy.freeservers.com/Suspension_Widths.html#Suspension
--
Thanks to my wife , I now know the proper spelling and meaning of the word - ORGANISM

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RE: a list of differential widths
by Rochie
Posted: 10/10/2002 09:08 EST

I just want to thank you guys for a great piece of information. It is now copied into my files and printed to go home into the "Library" Once again thanks to all of you!!!!
Rochie

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