I searched the archives and saw this subject but no one ever asked about the compromise in traction/axle wrap caused by removing leaves from the spring pack. It's considerably cheaper to go air-over-leaf but I'm concerned about axle wrap with the kind of HP and Torque my motor makes.

Anyone with experience with this type of system or, better yet, someone who's had both?

Thanks in advance,
Richard
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1936 Chevy Standard Sedan (Buick Grand National powered!!)
2003 Chevy Avalanche - Black WBH
2003 Chevy TrailBlazer - also black
1987 Buick GN (sold as rolling chassis)
1986 Buick GN (stolen 4/99)

Good question Richard.
I was pondering the same thing for my latest project.
I figured if I ran bags with a single leaf, I'd have to put bars on it to control spring wrap.
Since you're half way to a 4 link setup anyway, might just as well finish it.
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Charlie

Yeah, and unless there's some kinda bar I'm not aware of, there's no room for a traction bar of any kind when the suspension is slammed. I looked at some "Caltrac" bars, but with their added cost I could go 4-link. I think I know the answer to my original question but was hoping there was an economical alternative.

I have a 1" lowering block under the springs now. Really don't want any more than that. I remember from my lifted 4X4 days how tall lift blocks compound the axle wrap problem.
--
1936 Chevy Standard Sedan (Buick Grand National powered!!)
2003 Chevy Avalanche - Black WBH
2003 Chevy TrailBlazer - also black
1987 Buick GN (sold as rolling chassis)
1986 Buick GN (stolen 4/99)

If you go with air over leaf's,would you have enough room on top of the differential, to run a "leaf-link" set-up??
--
A wise monkey,never monkey's with another monkey's monkey.

Not sure what you're calling a "leaf link". Not much room left for sure. Can you describe it?

--
1936 Chevy Standard Sedan (Buick Grand National powered!!)
2003 Chevy Avalanche - Black WBH
2003 Chevy TrailBlazer - also black
1987 Buick GN (sold as rolling chassis)
1986 Buick GN (stolen 4/99)

Being on my 3rd bagged truck I say there is no doubt the 4 link is the way to go!
--
Resident Youngin'

Dragginsplash,

Did you build your own or buy a kit?
--
1936 Chevy Standard Sedan (Buick Grand National powered!!)
2003 Chevy Avalanche - Black WBH
2003 Chevy TrailBlazer - also black
1987 Buick GN (sold as rolling chassis)
1986 Buick GN (stolen 4/99)

my first truck with airride started out with mono leafs + bags, and the ride was decent. Luckily a good friend was at Wyotech and got me a great deal on a ss airride tech 4 link (triangulated), the difference was amazing! It was very easy to install and their tech people are rather helpful. Before I 'bagged the last ranger I baught a pete and jakes triangulated 4 link, and it also worked great. I have always used the triangulated type as I have always been told (for what thats worth) you have less chance of experiencing binding if you would go with a cantilever system in the future (or any other system that would use mechanical adv. to gain additional lift.)
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Resident Youngin'

In looking at the bags individually, I see their weight rating. How do you determine which bag to use?

a. Total vehicle weight
b. 1/4 or 1/2 vehicle weight
c. something else entirely.

I've come across a pretty good deal on a 4-link and adding the extra parts for the bags still comes out considerably cheaper than the Air Ride Technologies kit. I just don't want to buy the wrong stuff, then have to do it over, negating and savings I had with more expenses and headaches.
I learned a long time ago that my time is worth something,too! A well engineered "kit" can often be worth some extra cost.
--
1936 Chevy Standard Sedan (Buick Grand National powered!!)
2003 Chevy Avalanche - Black WBH
2003 Chevy TrailBlazer - also black
1987 Buick GN (sold as rolling chassis)
1986 Buick GN (stolen 4/99)

Mistrgoodwrench........I can tell you have lead a sheltered life,and not spent much time around any MOPARS:))
Back in the day,the old Mopar Super Stockers,utilised what was known as a "leaf-link" what it is,basically is a leaf spring setup,just like you are describing using with your air bags,BUT on top of the differential,you add,what is essentially,the top half of a four bar set-up. You would be using your air bags to support the weight of the vehicle,the leaf springs are the bottom of the four bar,and the top bars control any suspension "roll" when you apply the power. No need for a track bar. Something to think about. They work great.
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A wise monkey,never monkey's with another monkey's monkey.

no need to pay the ART or other big name costs if you dont want...$899 for a 4 link + bags is roberry imo...brackets would be around $95 (or make your own), bags $70-95 depending on style, and you can still buy a pretty chrome or ss link. Sleeve bags will give you more lift than a firestone 2500, and the same as an airlift or slam specialties. ART swears by the sleeve bag for rear applications, yet seem to be the only co. that does...they cannot take the same amt of psi as a standard bag, and have been known for some problems with the steel retaining strap, if I did not have the bags with the kit I would have gone with a standard convoluted bag....bags are rated by weight indiv...2 2500 lb bags would allow a capacity of 5,000 lbs with no leafs
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Resident Youngin'

Slick,
I don't know about sheltered but you're right about the limited Mopar exposure. I'm also a bit younger than most Street Rodders (37). I wasn't familiar with the "leaf link" terminology but from your description it sounds very similar to the top links in a factory GM 4-link like in a G-body (Regal,Cutlass,Monte Carlo) The "eyes for the top two links are cast into the rear end housing. That's a good idea I hadn't thought of. Thanks.

Dragginsplash,

So, two 1500 lb bags in the rear of a #3200 car would be sufficient? How much "oversizing" would you recommend to be safe? This is assuming a 4-link and no springs.

Thanks.
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1936 Chevy Standard Sedan (Buick Grand National powered!!)
2003 Chevy Avalanche - Black WBH
2003 Chevy TrailBlazer - also black
1987 Buick GN (sold as rolling chassis)
1986 Buick GN (stolen 4/99)

Personally......if I were you. I would consider the Air Ride kit.
(1) is is already engineered for your specific vehicle.
(2)IF, you have a problem......they are only a phone call away........
(3) ask them about using a leaf link setup and see what THEY have to say.......

FWIW...... My entire chassis setup is designed and built by ART MORRISON......utilizing Air Ride Technologies pieces and parts....... I been doing this sorta stuff for over 30 years.....I still don't know EVERYTHING that I need at times..........
--
A wise monkey,never monkey's with another monkey's monkey.

Slick, Will that truck be ready for next season? It`s going to be one awsome ride.
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WPoC

If the good Lord is willing......... It is in the final fit-up and assembly as I type this. ALL the fabrication is completed. 99.7% of the FINISH body work is completed and is in the final coat of primer. When it comes apart this time,it will be for paint and the finish work on the chassis. Here is a shot of the dash taken just two weeks ago. It is now in final primer as well. Since we didn't make it LAST year,we are trying for Detroit AGAIN this February.

What is that bright light???? Is it...can it be?
My gosh.....it IS....the light end of the tunnel....
--
A wise monkey,never monkey's with another monkey's monkey.

That dash turned out very nice!
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I'm the Mikey that dont eat everything!

I agree with the ART only being a call away, tony does a great job helping with tech questions, however you do pay for that. The sleeve bags ART uses cannot handle the weight that a pair of firestone 2500's does..if memory serves me correctly sleeve's are only rated at 900 lbs ea, fine for most, non hauling applications. You also must be careful with the amount of pressure thru them, they cannot handle over 130 psi w/o fear of overextension, and you must set them up so they do not fully collapse, as the internal bumpstop is plastic and it will break...If ART states they ride better I would believe them, however there are too many 'ifs' with the sleeves I do not feel comfortable with for my application, not sure what yours is, that makes a big diffrence. Hope that helps,
really hope to see your ride slick, looks great!
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Resident Youngin'

Lookin good Slick!
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I'm the Mikey that dont eat everything!